The flowers on the tulwar hilts

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 31st March 2017, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Ibrahiim, what we have discussed so far are the decorations inlaid or in koftgari, but there are others - the steel cut ones, and they go back far longer.
At the same time I am not so sure, that the disc decoration and the hilt decoration are connected, they could be, but I have my doubt, as to me the disc decoration seems not to change in the same way as the hilt decoration does - after fashion.

I have done a comparison on this thread looking at both hilt and disc pommels and find that most are of the same decorative form whereas a few are not of the same style. I conclude therefor that the two areas of decoration must be linked with a few exceptions.. Page 1 of this thread has many that are clearly linked. The pommel however does lend itself to a cyclic style simply because it is round thus sunburst form is common. I wondered if the general form of the pommel was related to the name Tulvar meaning flower and suggest that it looks similar to a poppy.

kronckew · 31st March 2017, 05:57 PM

somewhat more mundane mughal style bronze grip on one of my swords with cast in floral decor.

Jim McDougall · 2nd April 2017, 04:14 AM

Mundane?? Very nice entry Wayne!
This looks very much Mysori, with the tiger head.

Mercenary · 4th April 2017, 01:15 PM

Some pictures:

Jens Nordlunde · 4th April 2017, 04:29 PM

Thank you for the pictures.
I think the research should include other decorated things, than weapons only, as many of these things have been studied and researched far more than the weapons have.
I do realise that many collectors collect weapons, buy weapon books and study then, and that is that. For the ones who wants to go farther, studying other art items can be of a very big help.

Jim McDougall · 4th April 2017, 04:49 PM

"...they convincingly explained that rather than being mere accessories, weapons are in fact themselves artistic creations that reflect larger stylistic tendencies of a period".
Bruno Thomas & Ortwin Gamber
"Jahrbuch des Kunsthistorischen"
Museums in Wien 1937-1955
As cited in p.73, "Imperial Austria: Treasures of Art, Arms and Armor
from the State of Styria"
Museum of Fine Arts, Houston, 1992

Q.E.D.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 7th April 2017, 09:20 PM

I thought I had dug up an excellent reference when I stumbled upon the book by Amina Okada ~ "Imperial Mughal Painters" however it contained only half a dozen lightweight references somewhat unrelated to the central theme I have worked into this thread relating to Daro Shikoh...I did however rumble into one fact that Daro's son was captured by the forces of Aurangazeb and imprisoned whereupon he was slowly poisoned to death by poppies being soaked in water with which he had to drink...
Another powerful flower pictorially was the Lilly shown below with Shah Jehan along with a Firangi straight sword .

31st March 2017, 05:57 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,216	somewhat more mundane mughal style bronze grip on one of my swords with cast in floral decor. Attached Images

4th April 2017, 01:15 PM	#4
Mercenary Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 426	Some pictures: Attached Images

7th April 2017, 09:20 PM	#7
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	I thought I had dug up an excellent reference when I stumbled upon the book by Amina Okada ~ "Imperial Mughal Painters" however it contained only half a dozen lightweight references somewhat unrelated to the central theme I have worked into this thread relating to Daro Shikoh...I did however rumble into one fact that Daro's son was captured by the forces of Aurangazeb and imprisoned whereupon he was slowly poisoned to death by poppies being soaked in water with which he had to drink... Another powerful flower pictorially was the Lilly shown below with Shah Jehan along with a Firangi straight sword . Attached Images

2nd April 2017, 04:14 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,200	Mundane?? Very nice entry Wayne! This looks very much Mysori, with the tiger head.

4th April 2017, 04:29 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Thank you for the pictures. I think the research should include other decorated things, than weapons only, as many of these things have been studied and researched far more than the weapons have. I do realise that many collectors collect weapons, buy weapon books and study then, and that is that. For the ones who wants to go farther, studying other art items can be of a very big help.

4th April 2017, 04:49 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,200	"...they convincingly explained that rather than being mere accessories, weapons are in fact themselves artistic creations that reflect larger stylistic tendencies of a period". Bruno Thomas & Ortwin Gamber "Jahrbuch des Kunsthistorischen" Museums in Wien 1937-1955 As cited in p.73, "Imperial Austria: Treasures of Art, Arms and Armor from the State of Styria" Museum of Fine Arts, Houston, 1992 Q.E.D.