Frey Collection Picit

[David]

I did a little research and tracked down the actual auction.
For what it's worth the auction house attests that it is all pure gold. I cannot verify their claim without the piece in hand, of course, but it does seem unlikely that an auction of this stature would lie about such an important component to potential bidding.
http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lo...ia*-AB640A98B5

[kai]

Hello David,

For what it's worth the auction house attests that it is all pure gold.

I have yet to know any auction house that guarantees any item descriptions. I guess they just went with Frey's collection notes without any scrutinizing.

Considering the patination on the front side, I also believe this is gilded silver; I'd also be extremely surprised if the selut were solid gold (usually these are fire-gilded at best). Why the wear is on the front side while the back side seems still intact is anybody's guess...

I agree that the real worth of any keris should be in the blade though.

Regards,
Kai

[David]

Yep. While i will pass no judgement on the material it could quite possibly be as you say. People don't always tell the truth. Go figure!
But it is that blade i find really interesting. As has been noted, i can't think of any picit blades outside of Jawa. Perhaps a few. Anybody? This blade had been in Frey's collection at least since the early 80s and probably longer. But it does not appear to be a Javanese blade to my eyes. I know nothing about the resurgence of keris production in Malaysia, only that it had been practically dead in Jawa post WWII until the 1970s when it got a kick start through the encouragement of people like Dietrich Drescher so i am inclined to think that this must be a pre-WWII blade at the very least. I would be interested in hearing if someone has a different interpretation, but i would not think that a blade like this would have been made between the time the war and the 1980s perhaps anywhere in Indonesia. I would be very interested to know if anyone is aware of a tradition of picit blades outside of Jawa.

[kai]

Hello David,

Yes, I was going to concentrate on the blade, too.

I would be very interested to know if anyone is aware of a tradition of picit blades outside of Jawa.

Yes, there is. I have seen several of these shorter and stout blades from other areas of the archipelago - some have picit, too.

While it may be tough to verify whether these all really originated from outside of the land of Jawa, I'd at least suggest that the pamor motifs here are not typical and also the ricikan and gandik features suggest different influences.

I've also had an antique alameng sword with several picit "thumb prints" on an otherwise typical Bugis blade.

Regards,
Kai

[David]

Originally Posted by kai

Yes, there is. I have seen several of these shorter and stout blades from other areas of the archipelago - some have picit, too.

While it may be tough to verify whether these all really originated from outside of the land of Jawa, I'd at least suggest that the pamor motifs here are not typical and also the ricikan and gandik features suggest different influences.

Yes, the dhapur is not so much a question for me. I have also seen similar profiled blades from location outside Jawa, just not with the picit feature.
And yes, it is those very features you mention, especially the specific pamor motifs present here, that lead me to believe this is not a Jawa blade. It would not be so much of an enigma to me if not for the picit.
You mention that you have seen some of these shorter and stout Malay keris with picit. Do you have any examples you can show? Anyone?

[David]

Originally Posted by kai

I've also had an antique alameng sword with several picit "thumb prints" on an otherwise typical Bugis blade.

Actually Kai, even though we usually try to keep the postings on this forum to only keris, i wouldn't mind having a look at that sword just to establish visually that the talismanic concept of picit markings was established in Bugis culture. It's just not something i have seen before seeing this Frey keris. If you would care to share a photo that would be great.

[Jean]

A good friend referred me to the auction listings (www.heliosauctions.com), so those of you who are interested can discover them
Regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

A good friend referred me to the auction listings (www.heliosauctions.com), so those of you who are interested can discover them
Regards

Thanks Jean. I posted a similar link directly to the piece in question above in post #17.
From what i understand this keris went for more than 3 times estimated price.

[kai]

Hello David,

even though we usually try to keep the postings on this forum to only keris, i wouldn't mind having a look at that sword just to establish visually that the talismanic concept of picit markings was established in Bugis culture.

Here's the link: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12141

The blade shows some typical Bugis features and I am confident that this blade originates from Sulawesi.

I will try to comment on picit from other areas later...

Regards,
Kai

[David]

Thanks Kai!

[silberschatzimsee]

Originally Posted by kai

I have yet to know any auction house that guarantees any item descriptions. I guess they just went with Frey's collection notes without any scrutinizing.

A big gun auction house in fairfield usa claims to do so.


Concerning the metal, i also think its gilded silver.