What Will Happen

mariusgmioc · 20th March 2017, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green

i always wonder why there aren't more public or private museums specializing in ethnographic weapons. wouldn't it be great if collectors of specialized ethonographic weapons such as balatos, mandaus and keris build their own private museums?...

it may be costly to build one in more expensive countries but it is not so in countries of origin of these arms (particularly Indonesia and Malaysia). My guess is to build a decent museum will not cost more than 0.5 million usd in these two countries. I'd be happy to participate if anyone is interested as I've always dream of having my own private museum!

Actually there are such museums (or there is at least one)!

I visited one about two years ago, the NEKA ART MUSEUM in Ubud, Bali, Indonesia. The museum features the private Keris collection of Mr. Neka and it is a "must see" for any Keris aficionado.

Green · 20th March 2017, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Actually there are such museums (or there is at least one)!

I visited one about two years ago, the NEKA ART MUSEUM in Ubud, Bali, Indonesia. The museum features the private Keris collection of Mr. Neka and it is a "must see" for any Keris aficionado.

Yes, and I've been here twice. There is one in southern Thailand (on a smaller scale)...But would be good if we have more! to cater for specific kind of weapons of special interest to each museum owner... Neka for example caters chiefly to kemardikan Bali keris. I've yet so see any good mandau collections in any museums... would love it if someone would build a Dayak museum!

Sajen · 20th March 2017, 03:11 PM

It will be good to have a friend with knowledge to help my wife when I am gone!

CCUAL · 20th March 2017, 04:13 PM

When I started my collection I brought in a little side-kick with me, my 5 years old daughter. Now, even at young age, she's as enthusiastic as I am when it comes to this blades. She told me one time, don't worry dad, when you "kick the bucket! ", I will take care of our collections properly, I will place them in my home library for years and years to come for our family to enjoy, and when my time comes!.. but before it comes, I will mold my children or one of my children as their new care taker!

machinist · 21st March 2017, 02:02 AM

After a little talk with my brother I had planned to take pics and add notes as to what they are and might be worth and how best to dispose of each piece, some might do well on Ebay but others would need to go to a regular auction house.
Having a good database would be of help if I suffered a theft also.
I do think that getting rid of lesser pieces while still able to do so is best and pair down the collection.

fernando · 21st March 2017, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by machinist

... Having a good database would be of help if I suffered a theft also. ..

I think this is a must, by all means ...
Mine is composed of:

#
TYPE OF WEAPON
COUNTRY OF ORIGIN
MODEL
SERIAL NUMBERS
MARKS/INSCRIPTIONS
SELLER
AGE
THOROUGHEST DESCRIPTION
PRICE BOUGHT
YEAR BOUGHT
HYPERLINK TO PHOTOS LIBRARY.

I have opted for price bought as i take it this is vital to register the actual value you paid for as then, eventually from there, you may build a theoretical selling price, depending on the context; in my case a price to loose, as i am no shrewd buyer at all.

.

Lee · 21st March 2017, 05:36 PM

The happiest situation, of course, is when the collector has deserving and interested relatives and or friends who would appreciate and maintain the collection, but I fear this is not a common outcome.

Similarly, the vast majority of the items in our collections are unlikely to be of interest to museums for inclusion into their collections and display. They can only absorb so much.

This means that the majority of our collections will find their way back into the marketplace and ultimately into new collections as the cycle completes another turn. This is not bad as this is where most of our own collections came from.

Unfortunately, preserving the monetary value of the collection upon dispersal for the collector's heirs will be difficult if possible. When items have been held for a good long time and have not fallen from popularity (or have been wrongly stigmatized and blocked from sale as is the current case of items with ivory content in many jurisdictions) natural price appreciation and the background of inflation will mask the expenses and trauma of transfer.

Sale by auction has been favored in the comments above and given the correct venue and a decent turnout may be the highest yielding 'turnkey' solution. Still, for most items, auction prices are likely to lag behind retail gallery prices, partially because the buyer must account for an obscene 15 to 25% (or thereabouts buyer's commission) beyond what the seller's commission will take. In any case expect, on a 'good' day at auction, that something like about a third of the value will be absorbed by the transfer process. With penalties for 'high' reserves, setting a reserve can provide only so much protection.

Selling to a dealer is another solution that may provide a quick and relatively easy 'turnkey' solution. However, one reality that many collectors may not realize until they try to sell in bulk is that a buying dealer must tie up their capital in the collection and it may take a lot of work, ancillary expenses and years to sell. This means that one should expect only 25 to 50% of the price that the dealer eventually hopes to realize. As some of you recoil in horror, let me advise you (from my own adventures as a 'limited instruction set specialist antique dealer') that the dealer is very likely going to earn that markup. At least with this option your heirs do know what you will get 'up front'!

You, your family or a friend of the family can always try the DIY (do it yourself) option and work through the collection via online sales or sales at gun shows and achieve a low retail return if you have the time and patience. You will surely earn the improved return with many hours of labor and you should go into such a plan with your eyes open as to issues with online sales hosts and their policies that may leave you hanging or 'crushed under the bus'.

Our deceased forums moderator Lew Waldman left his family with a written ledger book for about half of his collection with inventory numbers, a description and some of his thoughts about each item and an estimate of value. Doing so has increased their recovery of his collection's value. A database is great for the collector (and Fernando has covered what needs to be included above) but I would advise there also being a paper copy of the information just in case the family is less computer adept or the password for the well-encrypted file dies with you. (After all the file includes the greatest secret a collector will likely have kept from their loved ones - namely how much they have invested in their collection!) I have no one to keep this information from, and yet I still greatly restrict its dissemination. I have sternly warned my next of kin to find my records before disposing of anything - whichever option you choose they will need to have this information to intelligently assess their options! So, perhaps a private (only your name and signature) safe deposit box for your records of provenance, receipts, etc. and only a note they will find telling them where to find the key once they have a death certificate to present with it at the bank.

20th March 2017, 04:13 PM	#4
CCUAL Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 76	When I started my collection I brought in a little side-kick with me, my 5 years old daughter. Now, even at young age, she's as enthusiastic as I am when it comes to this blades. She told me one time, don't worry dad, when you "kick the bucket! ", I will take care of our collections properly, I will place them in my home library for years and years to come for our family to enjoy, and when my time comes!.. but before it comes, I will mold my children or one of my children as their new care taker! Attached Images Last edited by CCUAL; 20th March 2017 at 09:08 PM.

21st March 2017, 05:36 PM	#7
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 937	Some Harsh Realities The happiest situation, of course, is when the collector has deserving and interested relatives and or friends who would appreciate and maintain the collection, but I fear this is not a common outcome. Similarly, the vast majority of the items in our collections are unlikely to be of interest to museums for inclusion into their collections and display. They can only absorb so much. This means that the majority of our collections will find their way back into the marketplace and ultimately into new collections as the cycle completes another turn. This is not bad as this is where most of our own collections came from. Unfortunately, preserving the monetary value of the collection upon dispersal for the collector's heirs will be difficult if possible. When items have been held for a good long time and have not fallen from popularity (or have been wrongly stigmatized and blocked from sale as is the current case of items with ivory content in many jurisdictions) natural price appreciation and the background of inflation will mask the expenses and trauma of transfer. Sale by auction has been favored in the comments above and given the correct venue and a decent turnout may be the highest yielding 'turnkey' solution. Still, for most items, auction prices are likely to lag behind retail gallery prices, partially because the buyer must account for an obscene 15 to 25% (or thereabouts buyer's commission) beyond what the seller's commission will take. In any case expect, on a 'good' day at auction, that something like about a third of the value will be absorbed by the transfer process. With penalties for 'high' reserves, setting a reserve can provide only so much protection. Selling to a dealer is another solution that may provide a quick and relatively easy 'turnkey' solution. However, one reality that many collectors may not realize until they try to sell in bulk is that a buying dealer must tie up their capital in the collection and it may take a lot of work, ancillary expenses and years to sell. This means that one should expect only 25 to 50% of the price that the dealer eventually hopes to realize. As some of you recoil in horror, let me advise you (from my own adventures as a 'limited instruction set specialist antique dealer') that the dealer is very likely going to earn that markup. At least with this option your heirs do know what you will get 'up front'! You, your family or a friend of the family can always try the DIY (do it yourself) option and work through the collection via online sales or sales at gun shows and achieve a low retail return if you have the time and patience. You will surely earn the improved return with many hours of labor and you should go into such a plan with your eyes open as to issues with online sales hosts and their policies that may leave you hanging or 'crushed under the bus'. Our deceased forums moderator Lew Waldman left his family with a written ledger book for about half of his collection with inventory numbers, a description and some of his thoughts about each item and an estimate of value. Doing so has increased their recovery of his collection's value. A database is great for the collector (and Fernando has covered what needs to be included above) but I would advise there also being a paper copy of the information just in case the family is less computer adept or the password for the well-encrypted file dies with you. (After all the file includes the greatest secret a collector will likely have kept from their loved ones - namely how much they have invested in their collection!) I have no one to keep this information from, and yet I still greatly restrict its dissemination. I have sternly warned my next of kin to find my records before disposing of anything - whichever option you choose they will need to have this information to intelligently assess their options! So, perhaps a private (only your name and signature) safe deposit box for your records of provenance, receipts, etc. and only a note they will find telling them where to find the key once they have a death certificate to present with it at the bank.

20th March 2017, 03:11 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,212	It will be good to have a friend with knowledge to help my wife when I am gone!

21st March 2017, 02:02 AM	#5
machinist Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 93	After a little talk with my brother I had planned to take pics and add notes as to what they are and might be worth and how best to dispose of each piece, some might do well on Ebay but others would need to go to a regular auction house. Having a good database would be of help if I suffered a theft also. I do think that getting rid of lesser pieces while still able to do so is best and pair down the collection.