Sboula for Comments

[TVV]

Thank you for the comments gentlemen.

Kubur, I personally believed the sboulas to be from Morocco, based on a couple of things:
1. The ones in Tirri's book show Moroccan decorative motives.
2. The only picture of a native wearing one shows him with an afedali musket from the Sous valley.

I am not opposed to Tunis/Libya attribution, but I just want to know what it is based on. I do agree that on one of my sboulas the scabbard does indeed look similar in construction to flyssa scabbards.

Sincerely,
Teodor

[Jim McDougall]

These s'boula are Moroccan, but I will note here that there was confusion on them as early as 1870s.

Using the flyssa reference previously noted in this discussion:

Stone (1934,p.234, fig.291) describes the flyssa as "the national sword of the Kabyles of Morocco".
This venerable reference is of course, incorrect in the sense we now are aware of the history of these unique edged weapons.

We may consider that this misattribution may be explained as follows:
The Kabyles, of the Berber tribal confederations (Ar. gabail= the tribes) are typically most well known as of the Djurdjura range of the Little Atlas mountains in Algeria.
They are best known for the unique 'flyssa' sword, which takes its name from the Iflyssen tribal group who are said to have initiated this form.
The Kabyles Berbers seem to follow the Sunni Malakite Rite, whose aparant center was situated in Morocco.

Tenuously, this Moroccan connection to the Kabyles groups, as noted usually associated with Algeria, may have accounted for the Stone attribution to Morocco.

The point is that there were clearly connections tribally between Morocco and Algeria via the Kabyle and more broadly Berber contexts.
The diffusion of these similarities between the s'boula and flyssa seems to be understandable in these considerations.

As for the correct attribution of the s'boula to Morocco as its original region of development, as I have emphasized previously, these very same hilted and bladed forms are shown in "Catalogue de la Collection d'Armes Anciennes" , Charles Buttin (Rumilly, 1933) in fig, 1032 and 1033, both termed 'poignard des Berberes du Maroc', plate XXXI.
As described in my research through 1990s, paper 2004, and discussions since then, Buttin notes (p.270) the error of A,Demmin (1877) attributing these to Zanzibar, and the subsequent carrying of that forward by Richard Burton (1885).

These attributions led to the perceptions of arms writers that these were from Zanzibar, and the term 'Zanzibar swords'. It has been found however that these same hilted and bladed weapons did occur in degree in Ethiopia (Lindert, 1967) with a number of examples inscribed in Ge'ez (Amharic).
It does seem that these very same swords likely did gain travel to Zanzibar with Omani traders who networked through the African interior and did interact with traders from these Ethiopian entrepots.

Therefore, the misattribution by Stone, the similarity of some features of s'boula to flyssa, and the misattribution by Demmin and Burton to Zanzibar have all been actually somewhat explained.

As for Tunisian or Libyan attribution for the s'boula, it is possible that some of these might have ended up in their sphere....but only incidentally from interaction via trade networks eastward from Morocco. I have not found any evidence for these being indigenous for either of these regions in the many years I have researched them.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The written word can be a very dangerous thing. More so when a fact is put down on paper in a respected publication and allowed to become fact for generations...Perpetration of errors in print, however, are no reason to reel off these, at times, blistering errors as facts in our era; where fortunately here at Forum the case for the incorrect detail on S'boula has been dead and buried many times over and now at last finally it can vanish in the mist of time ...finally...I hope other researchers can show further examples of these often repeated mistakes so we can rid history of these errors..something a book cannot do but for which we can be instrumental in correcting.

[Jim McDougall]

Extremely well said Ibrahiim!
In rereading this thread, many of the entries all have made some very astute observations such as reference to the inscription on the blade. This does seem to be a native applied imitation of what was likely one of the 'magical' acrostics or letter groupings which seem to have had possible imbued values other than the letters themselves. These often appeared on various European blades and were on blades described in Oakeshott and others from quite early sword blades, so these woud have been prestigiously regarded indeed.

As also has been noted, many of these s'boula were indeed mounted with bayonets and typically from French colonial sources, well available in these Saharan and Sahelian regions.

Visual assessments of the features and character of weapon forms in determining regional placement are always of course well valued, but often compromised by the well known diffusion of influences and often weapons themselves through trade and other motivational factors. As I have often recalled, as noted by other arms researchers in many cases, weapon forms have no geographic boundaries.
The key is often to determine areas where the preponderance of the form exists, has been recorded and observed in accounts or iconographically in many cases.

[TVV]

Jom,

Thank you for a very detailed answer explaining the Moroccan origin of these daggers and the history of their (mis)attribution to other areas in Africa.

A recurring theme through this thread seems to be the concept that many of the sboulas were made from European bayonets. I personally feel that most were either made from European sword blades or forged locally. Given the shape and geometry of sboula blades, I just cant think of many, or even any, bayonets that would fit without having to be reforged. These daggers are quite long, and both I have blades of approximately 21 inches. We can rule out all shorter bayonets, along with all spike bayonets. There were longer bayonets available in the 19th century of course, but the French Chassepot bayonet and other yataghan bayonets had a characteristic curve, and the sboula of course does not. The Gras bayonet has a straight back, but lacks the fuller structure we see on sboula blades, and I have not seen a sboula with a blade of a T-section yet.

I have seen janwi daggers with blades that most definitely started as French bayonets, but the fuller structure and shape of sboulas to me at least suggests sword blades (or local imitation thereof) and not bayonets.

Sincerely,
Teodor

[ariel]

Berbers are spread from Tunisia to Mali.
They view themselves as a nation separate from the Arabs and assert they are the native inhabitants of the area and that their ancestors were conquered by the Arabs and forcibly converted to Islam, to which they do not wish to belong.
They call themselves Amazigh. Their national hero is Queen Kahina, a contemporary of Muhammed, who managed to stall Arab advance and maintain an independent Berber state for 5 years.

Berbers are largely separated by clans concentrated roughly within different North African states. This probably explains the differences between their contemporary ethnic weapons. The sticky point in this explanation is the fact that we do not have examples of ancient Berber weapons, just the 19 century at the earliest. By that time, external influences, - Spanish, French, Italian and Ottoman,- likely obscured the inherent patterns and we have to resign ourselves to the fact that the original weapons of the Berbers will never be known to us.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by TVV

Thank you for the comments gentlemen.

Kubur, I personally believed the sboulas to be from Morocco, based on a couple of things:
1. The ones in Tirri's book show Moroccan decorative motives.
2. The only picture of a native wearing one shows him with an afedali musket from the Sous valley.
Sincerely,
Teodor

Jim, Teodor, I checked in my books and you are right: Morroco.
Buttin called them sboula or sekkin, he admited that this kind of daggers has some Moroccan characteristics... As Arial said Berbers spread from Tunisia to Mali.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Kubur, and you are right, Buttin did indeed describe ornamentation etc. as distinctly Moroccan and would have been most familiar with the weapons of Morocco. As I was told by his great grandson Dominique, he lived much of his life in Morocco so was keenly aware of their arms.
Teodor, good points on the bayonet potential for these weapons as being somewhat questionable, and I admit from my own standpoint, it was more of a notion given the extremely thin, needle point nature of a number of these (case in point Buttin, #1033). This example is specifically termed 'sekkin' as opposed to s'boula, and perhaps this, 'extremely long poniard' was identified as such by that term.
I had thought this looked remarkably like either the M1874 Epee Gras or the M1886 Lebel bayonets.
Again, another free association assumption.

Ariel, good notes on the Berbers, and I recall years ago (actually I think in this particular research) reading the anthropological study on Moroccan Berber ancestry "Tribes of the Rif" (Carleton S. Coon, 1932) where they emphatically declared they were 'Caucasian' or 'white' and not negroid.

To try to estimate types of weapons by classifying them as 'Berber' would be as useless as trying to classify a weapon as 'Byzantine' . It does seem that such broad classification has transcended these kinds of vague terming in the case of 'Ottoman' in perhaps too many cases, but accompanying qualification seems to usually rectify these.

[Kubur]

I have a small problem now.
What are the differences between a sboula and a genoui?
I can't find genoui in the litterature, is it something from collectors only?

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Kubur

I have a small problem now.
What are the differences between a sboula and a genoui?
I can't find genoui in the litterature, is it something from collectors only?

Actually, as in so many cases of the 'name game' in ethnographic edged weapons, the term is actually 'djenoui' (or genouii; janwi) and is a loosely used colloquialism in primarily Berber (or Maghrebi) parlance for a straight bladed dagger. This has often been applied to the koummya with straight blade, or any similar North African dagger with straight blade (indeed most likely by collectors).

As these were often from repurposed European blades, and presumably recalling earlier imports from Genoan sources, thus 'Genouii' (=Genoan), obviously an explanation wide open to critique, but the one typically recalled in discussions here over the past 8-10 years.

The s'boula could be technically called this I suppose, but really it is a matter of semantics and local parlance. The term s'boula is associated with Moroccan edged weapon as discussed, where the genouii term is mostly a colloquial term for straight blade with far broader scope.

When we really get into these terms as far as local parlances, even the koummya is not known by that term locally....it is simply 'khanjhar', much the way sa'if is used for the so called 'nimcha' sword in Morocco.

[Kubur]

Thank you very much Jim. I agree.
In the past, you or another member compared the Genoui to the Algerian khodmi or Bou Saada.
I make sense but then if the genoui and the s'bula are the same then it's confusing...
Here are some classic s'bula. I will post later the Tunisian ones that I mentionned at the begining...

[TVV]

Jim brings up a good point: as collectors we have a need for classification, unlike the original users of the weapons. Therefore, we often get caught up in needless semantics discussions.

That being said, I believe the people who made and used these swords still made some differentiation - for example, to them a short dagger would not be the same as one with a 22 inches/55 cm blade, as the two would have served an entire different purpose. In various cultures, we see a similar trend of knives becoming longer to serve as a sort of a short sword: whether it is the yataghans in the Ottoman Empire, the bauerwehr (and in later times the hanger) in Europe, the Khyber knife in Afghanistan or the sboula, the concept is the same. Whether because of socio-economic restraints: a sword was an expensive weapon, and in many cultures restricted to only certain social classes, or simply because a full sized sword was impractical and something easier to carry around was necessary, long knives as side arms seem to have existed almost everywhere.

When looking at the picture of the warrior with the afedali musket, the sboula is thrust in his sash not dissimilar to how a yataghan would be thrust in the silyahlik, and while the gun is his main weapon, he probably wanted a side arm in case a hand to hand combat situation arose. So when looking at sboulas, I see them as that: a longer dagger for use in those situations where a normal sized dagger would not be enough, and where a full sized sword or sabre would be too much or simply unobtainable.

The janwi (djenoui, genoui) on the other hand seems to be of shorter, more regular dagger size proportions and hilted like a koummaya. Obviously, longer versions like the one Kubur posted from wodimi's site exist, and there are certainly shorter daggers with an H-shaped hilt. There is no clear line between the two sometimes, taking us back to Jim's post about the futility of trying to come up with a rigid classification system.

To sum it up, I use "sboula" to refer to a longer dagger (20 inches+ blade) with an H shaped hilt, and "genoui" to refer to a regular sized straight dagger with a koummaya type hilt, with the understanding that this terminology is imperfect and exceptions and in-between versions of both forms exist.

Teodor