bugis sword

Sajen · 6th March 2017, 06:02 PM

It's strong Buginese influenced but found mainly on Sumbawa. Don't think that this a new sword, it's cleaned and the blade has received a warangan. Very nice short Sumbawa sword.

See here my one: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=sumbawa

Best regards,
Detlef

kai · 6th March 2017, 08:23 PM

Hello Detlef,

Quote:

It's strong Buginese influenced but found mainly on Sumbawa.

Actually, this is indeed an old Gowa/Bone style sword that got in vogue on Sumbawa due to the strong dynastic and cultural influences on the latter island. It is also fairly common for expat communities (and similar cultures/groups) to often keep established patterns longer than the originating culture which tends to evolve new trends and fads...

There are enough old high-end examples known from Sulawesi to establish that this style originated from there; it is also part of regalia on both, originating and dependant kingdoms.

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 6th March 2017, 08:43 PM

[QUOTE=kai]Hello Detlef,

Quote:

It's strong Buginese influenced but found mainly on Sumbawa.[/url]
Actually, this is indeed an old Gowa/Bone style sword that got in vogue on Sumbawa due to the strong dynastic and cultural influences on the latter island. It is also fairly common for expat communities (and similar cultures/groups) to often keep established patterns longer than the originating culture which tends to evolve new trends and fads...

There are enough old high-end examples known from Sulawesi to establish that this style originated from here; it is also part of regalia on both, originating and dependant kingdoms.

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,

yes I know about this, have seen old pictures from Gowa/Bone regalia with this swords. But think indeed that the sword in question originated from Sumbawa but who know exactly.

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 6th March 2017, 10:50 PM

Ma'afkan saya La Pagaru, tapi singkatan yg di post nomer 7 sangat kurang jelas.

Apakah artinya:- "--- GW! Wkkwkw" ?

Mungkin lebih baik kalau La Pagaru tidak pakai singkatan-singkatan.

( English:- Forgive me La Pagaru, but the abbreviations in post number 7 are very unclear.

What is the meaning of :- "--- GW! Wkkwkw" ?

Maybe it is better if La Pagaru does not use abbreviations.)

Battara · 7th March 2017, 12:01 AM

Thank you Alan.

It would be great of we kept to English, or at least provide a translation.......

A. G. Maisey · 7th March 2017, 01:20 AM

Yes, I agree, but for somebody like La Pagaru, I do think that the short messages with translation by a friend is adequate.

My post in B.I. and English is directed at the use of abbreviations.

A characteristic of B.I. is that it has a sort of military nature in that abbreviations are used extensively, the purpose was (supposedly) originally to exclude those who did not know what the abbreviations meant, from access to knowledge. This was generated by the militaristic nature of Indonesian society following freedom from colonial rule, but this use of abbreviations continues until today.

One major newspaper used to regularly update its readers with the new abbreviations. This use of abbreviations also occurs in conversation, and where a couple of people in a group have developed their own understanding of abbreviations a conversation between them can be almost totally incomprehensible. Something that in English communication can sometimes be regarded as extremely bad manners.

La Pagaru is clearly new to the use of English, and I am sure that as soon as he understands what is acceptable, and what is not acceptable in use of the English language, he will conform.

Amuk Murugul · 7th March 2017, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Ma'afkan saya La Pagaru, tapi singkatan yg di post nomer 7 sangat kurang jelas.

Apakah artinya:- "--- GW! Wkkwkw" ?

Mungkin lebih baik kalau La Pagaru tidak pakai singkatan-singkatan.

( English:- Forgive me La Pagaru, but the abbreviations in post number 7 are very unclear.

What is the meaning of :- "--- GW! Wkkwkw" ?

Maybe it is better if La Pagaru does not use abbreviations.)

GW=gue=me
Wkkwkw=wekwekwek=hehehe=lol
(Old Jungle Saying: A good hunter must know his prey .....

)

Best,

A. G. Maisey · 7th March 2017, 02:21 AM

Thanks Amuk.

"Gue" or "gua" is Jakarta dialect, also in use by some Indonesian Chinese populations. I recognise it, but have never used it, in fact I have not been to Jakarta since 1978, and the singkatan "GW" was not only unknown to me, but also unknown to three native speakers of B.I., one a 40 year old lady from Malang who arrived here in Australia only last week. Again, all three of these people are strangers to Jakarta, one from Solo, two from East Jawa, and all mature people with academic backgrounds.

The "Wkkwkw" was also unknown to the three native speakers. Is this also Jakarta dialect? Or is it a current colloquialism?

I very much appreciate your explanation, it demonstrates very clearly the fractured nature of B.I. Linguists tell us that Javanese is a non-standard language, and I suspect that if I knew other of the indigenous languages of Indonesia I would find a similar thing applied with these also. The way in which modern B.I. has developed seems to indicate that this propensity for creating one's own form of a public language is hardwired into the persona of the peoples of this country.

La Pagaru · 7th March 2017, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Thanks Amuk.

"Gue" or "gua" is Jakarta dialect, also in use by some Indonesian Chinese populations. I recognise it, but have never used it, in fact I have not been to Jakarta since 1978, and the singkatan "GW" was not only unknown to me, but also unknown to three native speakers of B.I., one a 40 year old lady from Malang who arrived here in Australia only last week. Again, all three of these people are strangers to Jakarta, one from Solo, two from East Jawa, and all mature people with academic backgrounds.

The "Wkkwkw" was also unknown to the three native speakers. Is this also Jakarta dialect? Or is it a current colloquialism?

I very much appreciate your explanation, it demonstrates very clearly the fractured nature of B.I. Linguists tell us that Javanese is a non-standard language, and I suspect that if I knew other of the indigenous languages of Indonesia I would find a similar thing applied with these also. The way in which modern B.I. has developed seems to indicate that this propensity for creating one's own form of a public language is hardwired into the persona of the peoples of this country.

Dear Alan

sorry for the language that I use, maybe next time I have to use google translete to create more posts, once again I apologize
Regards LP

Sajen · 7th March 2017, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The "Wkkwkw" was also unknown to the three native speakers. Is this also Jakarta dialect? Or is it a current colloquialism?

Hello Alan, I was already fallen to sleep when started this current issue. I assume that you never have read short messages send by internet media from younger Indonesian people, like I am you would be unable to understand what's the meaning!

To answer your question, it's the second, I've seen this abbr. many times, I don't have a facebook page so I use now and then the one from my wife. First time I've seen such a message I've asked my wife which language this is!

Regards,
Detlef

6th March 2017, 06:02 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,246	It's strong Buginese influenced but found mainly on Sumbawa. Don't think that this a new sword, it's cleaned and the blade has received a warangan. Very nice short Sumbawa sword. See here my one: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=sumbawa Best regards, Detlef Attached Images

6th March 2017, 10:50 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,034	Ma'afkan saya La Pagaru, tapi singkatan yg di post nomer 7 sangat kurang jelas. Apakah artinya:- "--- GW! Wkkwkw" ? Mungkin lebih baik kalau La Pagaru tidak pakai singkatan-singkatan. ( English:- Forgive me La Pagaru, but the abbreviations in post number 7 are very unclear. What is the meaning of :- "--- GW! Wkkwkw" ? Maybe it is better if La Pagaru does not use abbreviations.) Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 7th March 2017 at 01:21 AM.

7th March 2017, 12:01 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,299	Thank you Alan. It would be great of we kept to English, or at least provide a translation.......

7th March 2017, 01:20 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,034	Yes, I agree, but for somebody like La Pagaru, I do think that the short messages with translation by a friend is adequate. My post in B.I. and English is directed at the use of abbreviations. A characteristic of B.I. is that it has a sort of military nature in that abbreviations are used extensively, the purpose was (supposedly) originally to exclude those who did not know what the abbreviations meant, from access to knowledge. This was generated by the militaristic nature of Indonesian society following freedom from colonial rule, but this use of abbreviations continues until today. One major newspaper used to regularly update its readers with the new abbreviations. This use of abbreviations also occurs in conversation, and where a couple of people in a group have developed their own understanding of abbreviations a conversation between them can be almost totally incomprehensible. Something that in English communication can sometimes be regarded as extremely bad manners. La Pagaru is clearly new to the use of English, and I am sure that as soon as he understands what is acceptable, and what is not acceptable in use of the English language, he will conform.

7th March 2017, 02:21 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,034	Thanks Amuk. "Gue" or "gua" is Jakarta dialect, also in use by some Indonesian Chinese populations. I recognise it, but have never used it, in fact I have not been to Jakarta since 1978, and the singkatan "GW" was not only unknown to me, but also unknown to three native speakers of B.I., one a 40 year old lady from Malang who arrived here in Australia only last week. Again, all three of these people are strangers to Jakarta, one from Solo, two from East Jawa, and all mature people with academic backgrounds. The "Wkkwkw" was also unknown to the three native speakers. Is this also Jakarta dialect? Or is it a current colloquialism? I very much appreciate your explanation, it demonstrates very clearly the fractured nature of B.I. Linguists tell us that Javanese is a non-standard language, and I suspect that if I knew other of the indigenous languages of Indonesia I would find a similar thing applied with these also. The way in which modern B.I. has developed seems to indicate that this propensity for creating one's own form of a public language is hardwired into the persona of the peoples of this country.