Short Sword For Comment

[Ian]

Rob:

I would say the examples attached to this post are NOT dahong palay.

Ian.

--------------------Attachments-------------------

Examples of swords and knives that show asymmetric spear-shaped tips. These do not resemble the rice leaf or the snake that are each referred to as dahong palay.
.

[RobT]

Ian,

Thanks for the correction. For some reason, I had it backwards.

Sincerely,
RobT

PS. Really nice collection of dahong palay & non-dahong palay.

[Ian]

Rob:

Here is another Ilocano sword that just finished on eBay and is no longer available for sale. It has a similar style of brass guard and full tang hilt with a threaded brass nut on the end. I would date this one also as post WWII.

BTW, I have no idea how the two small holes in the guard may have been used. The brazing of the brass joints is also quite evident on this one.

Ian.

[RobT]

Ian,

Although the cross guards are similar, the hilt on the sword you posted looks more Spanish than Chinese. To me, the blade I have has the look of a jian that has been filtered through Philippine sensibilities (the seller just thought it was flat out Chinese). That's what is so fascinating to me. The Spanish aesthetic influence in the northern Philippine blades is often encountered. What about the Chinese? What was their aesthetic influence (if any) on northern Philippine blades in the late 19th century to post WW II and what were the sociocultural circumstances surrounding any such influence?

Sincerely,
RobT

[xasterix]

Hi! Just some clarification. While the attribution of dahong palay for Southern Luzon is correct- its tip is at center- the attribution for Ilocos is incorrect.

In Ilocos, there are two 'leaf' blade classifications. The first one is 'bulong pagay' (rice leaf) and 'bulong unas' (sugarcane leaf). It's important to note that unlike Southern Luzon rice leaf blades, the bulong pagay's blade tip is at top, sometimes even slightly arcing up. The bulong unas' tip, on the other hand, corresponds with the Southern Luzon rice leaf blades, as its tip is dead center. To illustrate, please see the following pictures:

1. Sinan-olimaw (dragon hilt) na bulong pagay (left) and sinan-kapitan na bulong unas (right)

2. Trio of sinan-kapitan na bulong unas blades

3. Sinan-olimaw na bulong pagay (solo pic)

It's important to classify the Filipino traditional blades according to the native language in the region, as using a general classification (rice leaf) may apply to a certain blade profile in one region of Luzon, but not to the other regions. While the meaning of the translated term is the same, the blade profile attribution may be different. This also happens in Visayas and Mindanao blades.

Source of classification is from the panday community of Santa, Ilocos Sur, and the elder panday/artisan Antonio Pader.

[Ian]

Dear Xas,

Wonderful stuff! Thanks so much for posting these clarifications. I think what you are saying is that dahong palay is used in the Tagalog regions and that bulong unas is used where Ilokano, or a dialect thereof, is spoken. Is that correct? How confusing that "rice leaf" is used to describe two different blade profiles.

One question. The hilts described as sinan olimaw in your pictures appear to be the same as sinan sabong that Lorenzo illustrated in an earlier post. The sinan sabong was said to represent a flower. Can you clarify if we are talking about the same thing, just two different names, or are they different hilt styles? Perhaps the same style represents different things in the Ilocos provinces compared with elsewhere.

Xas, it might also be helpful to describe the geographic area that you classify as Southern Luzon. For example, you have mentioned Taal, Laguna, Batangas in the context of Southern Luzon. Parts of these areas are now almost "bedroom suburbs" of Manila. Do you extend your definition to include as far down as the Bicol region?

Ian

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by Ian

Dear Xas,

Wonderful stuff! Thanks so much for posting these clarifications. I think what you are saying is that dahong palay is used in the Tagalog regions and that bulong unas is used where Ilokano, or a dialect thereof, is spoken. Is that correct? How confusing that "rice leaf" is used to describe two different blade profiles.

One question. The hilts described as sinan olimaw in your pictures appear to be the same as sinan sabong that Lorenzo illustrated in an earlier post. The sinan sabong was said to represent a flower. Can you clarify if we are talking about the same thing, just two different names, or are they different hilt styles? Perhaps the same style represents different things in the Ilocos provinces compared with elsewhere.

Xas, it might also be helpful to describe the geographic area that you classify as Southern Luzon. For example, you have mentioned Taal, Laguna, Batangas in the context of Southern Luzon. Parts of these areas are now almost "bedroom suburbs" of Manila. Do you extend your definition to include as far down as the Bicol region?

Ian

Halloo Ian thanks for pointing out my area classification deficiency - I think I'll stick to CALABARZON as my area indicator instead for Southern Luzon (encompassing Cavite, Laguna, Batangas, Rizal, and Quezon provinces). That's a new area classification being used nowadays. All those areas have a similarly-profiled dahong palay blade.

Regarding the blade profile, the equivalent of rice leaf 'dahongpalay' in the aforementioned provinces is equivalent to Ilocos sugarcane leaf 'bulong unas.' The rice leaf 'bulong pagay' of Ilocos has a different blade profile. I can't comment on Bicol as that's another complication altogether, one I'm not yet thoroughly familiar with.

Regarding the sinan sabong, that's the standard labeling, but according to the Ilokano martial artist, healer, and researcher Virgil Apostol (2010) in his book Way of the Ancient Healer, that particular hilt represents olimaw or orimaw. It's one of the monsters in Ilokano mythology, similar to the Visayan bakunawa.