Short Sword For Comment

Ian · 6th March 2017, 12:48 AM

The blade form is consistent with a dahong palay from the Philippines, and more specifically from Luzon. The brass guard and brass ferrules with full length, offset tang are most likely Ilocano work, although the screw on the end of a threaded tang is a little unusual (more common to see a peined tang on Ilocano hilts). This appears to be a recently made piece, second half of 20th C.

Ian.

RobT · 6th March 2017, 02:13 AM

Ian,

Good pick-up on the threaded tang. I forgot to mention it. I also think it is mid to 2nd half of 20th century. I wouldn't have pegged it as dahong palay since the tip is so bilaterally symmetrical. It would appear that the term dahong palay covers a lot of ground. What was really interesting to me was that the seller thought the sword was Chinese and I had a really hard time convincing him that it is Philippine. To be honest, I have to admit that it appears to me also that it has a fair amount of Chinese influence.

Sincerely,
RobT

Ian · 6th March 2017, 07:40 AM

Hi Rob:

The dahong palay typically has a symmetrical, spear-shaped tip. The term refers to the similarity of the blade to a rice leaf (dahong palay) or to a venomous snake (dahong palay) that has a similarly shaped head.

Ian

-------------------Attachments--------------------

Dahong palay (rice leaf)
Dahong palay [Trimeresurus flavomaculatus (KU 330049) from mid-elevation, Mt. Cagua - ZooKeys-266-001-g098]
Examples of typical dahong palay swords and knives. Most have brass guards and fittings to various Ilocano styles of hilts

.

Ian · 6th March 2017, 07:57 AM

Rob:

I would say the examples attached to this post are NOT dahong palay.

Ian.

--------------------Attachments-------------------

Examples of swords and knives that show asymmetric spear-shaped tips. These do not resemble the rice leaf or the snake that are each referred to as dahong palay.
.

RobT · 7th March 2017, 01:59 AM

Ian,

Thanks for the correction. For some reason, I had it backwards.

Sincerely,
RobT

PS. Really nice collection of dahong palay & non-dahong palay.

Ian · 8th March 2017, 05:47 AM

Rob:

Here is another Ilocano sword that just finished on eBay and is no longer available for sale. It has a similar style of brass guard and full tang hilt with a threaded brass nut on the end. I would date this one also as post WWII.

BTW, I have no idea how the two small holes in the guard may have been used. The brazing of the brass joints is also quite evident on this one.

Ian.

RobT · 12th March 2017, 03:37 AM

Ian,

Although the cross guards are similar, the hilt on the sword you posted looks more Spanish than Chinese. To me, the blade I have has the look of a jian that has been filtered through Philippine sensibilities (the seller just thought it was flat out Chinese). That's what is so fascinating to me. The Spanish aesthetic influence in the northern Philippine blades is often encountered. What about the Chinese? What was their aesthetic influence (if any) on northern Philippine blades in the late 19th century to post WW II and what were the sociocultural circumstances surrounding any such influence?

Sincerely,
RobT

6th March 2017, 02:13 AM	#2
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 594	Thanks For the Info Ian, Good pick-up on the threaded tang. I forgot to mention it. I also think it is mid to 2nd half of 20th century. I wouldn't have pegged it as dahong palay since the tip is so bilaterally symmetrical. It would appear that the term dahong palay covers a lot of ground. What was really interesting to me was that the seller thought the sword was Chinese and I had a really hard time convincing him that it is Philippine. To be honest, I have to admit that it appears to me also that it has a fair amount of Chinese influence. Sincerely, RobT

6th March 2017, 07:40 AM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,613	Hi Rob: The dahong palay typically has a symmetrical, spear-shaped tip. The term refers to the similarity of the blade to a rice leaf (dahong palay) or to a venomous snake (dahong palay) that has a similarly shaped head. Ian -------------------Attachments-------------------- Dahong palay (rice leaf) Dahong palay [Trimeresurus flavomaculatus (KU 330049) from mid-elevation, Mt. Cagua - ZooKeys-266-001-g098] Examples of typical dahong palay swords and knives. Most have brass guards and fittings to various Ilocano styles of hilts . Attached Images Last edited by Ian; 6th March 2017 at 07:51 AM.

6th March 2017, 07:57 AM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,613	Rob: I would say the examples attached to this post are NOT dahong palay. Ian. --------------------Attachments------------------- Examples of swords and knives that show asymmetric spear-shaped tips. These do not resemble the rice leaf or the snake that are each referred to as dahong palay. . Attached Images

7th March 2017, 01:59 AM	#5
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 594	Got It Ian, Thanks for the correction. For some reason, I had it backwards. Sincerely, RobT PS. Really nice collection of dahong palay & non-dahong palay.

8th March 2017, 05:47 AM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,613	Rob: Here is another Ilocano sword that just finished on eBay and is no longer available for sale. It has a similar style of brass guard and full tang hilt with a threaded brass nut on the end. I would date this one also as post WWII. BTW, I have no idea how the two small holes in the guard may have been used. The brazing of the brass joints is also quite evident on this one. Ian. Attached Images

6th March 2017, 12:48 AM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,613	The blade form is consistent with a dahong palay from the Philippines, and more specifically from Luzon. The brass guard and brass ferrules with full length, offset tang are most likely Ilocano work, although the screw on the end of a threaded tang is a little unusual (more common to see a peined tang on Ilocano hilts). This appears to be a recently made piece, second half of 20th C. Ian.

12th March 2017, 03:37 AM	#7
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 594	Hilt looks Spanish not Chinese Ian, Although the cross guards are similar, the hilt on the sword you posted looks more Spanish than Chinese. To me, the blade I have has the look of a jian that has been filtered through Philippine sensibilities (the seller just thought it was flat out Chinese). That's what is so fascinating to me. The Spanish aesthetic influence in the northern Philippine blades is often encountered. What about the Chinese? What was their aesthetic influence (if any) on northern Philippine blades in the late 19th century to post WW II and what were the sociocultural circumstances surrounding any such influence? Sincerely, RobT