An interesting Cutlass

thinreadline · 18th February 2017, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will M

Very nice cutlass. Don't see many of the earlier ones. Earlier blade type than the later blades that were like the Baker bayonet blades.
You see this fullered blade on early 1700's infantry sidearms.

Yes it does have an early looking blade but it is closest to the Pattern 1814 cutlass which featured this type post 1803 ribbed iron hilt and had a short curved blade unlike its straight bladed P1804 predecessor .... however the guard is different to the P 1814 which had the same figure of eight ( double disc ) hilt as the P 1804. Its a puzzle to me . If it wasnt for the GR crown I would say it was a commercial variant.

Jim McDougall · 19th February 2017, 03:16 AM

This looks like one for Cap'n Mark Eley!!!!
What does Gilkerson have to say on these? I would have been inclined to agree with the private purchase variant idea but for the GR.

Jim McDougall · 19th February 2017, 03:33 AM

Could not find Gilkerson, but Neumann ("Swords and Blades of the American Revolution", 1973) #364.S, has a cutlass with this heavy type blade dating 1740-60 at 19"; there is no marking, but the wide blade with radiused hatchet type point is identified American/European.

#376.S is an English cutlass with similar heavy blade (26") and marked to ship The Thomas of Selby on both the sheet steel guard and blade (dated 1770-1800). It is noted these type blades seen on English cutlasses into early 1800s.

Perhaps this is a prototype for the 'figure 8'? The ribbed iron grips were used of course on customs and other civil service groups, but unsure if these would have had the crowned GR.

Terry K · 19th February 2017, 03:33 AM

Fine looking cutlass, congrats. My friend just picked up one of the nicest US 1860? one

CutlassCollector · 19th February 2017, 12:23 PM

Nice cutlass. Remember this thread back in 2013 on machetes - it discussed the GR used by commercial makers and shows some 19th century catalogues for cutlasses and machetes. One is reprinted from Gilkerson.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...549#post163549

regards, CC

CutlassCollector · 19th February 2017, 01:13 PM

According to Gilkerson the cast iron handle with 18 ribs and 6 vertical grooves first appeared on the Brit 1804 cutlass. The handle was almost straight.
Later versions of the handle are more shaped with a swelling and slight curve at the end to fit in the hand better. The 1830's coastguard cutlass is an example.
And this one - courtesy of Cap'n Mark.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12145

The straight handle on yours would tend to indicate nearer the early part of the century.

The 1814 appears with both types of handle. But for a cutlass that did not go into production there are an awful lot of examples. I believe most of these were private purchase using blades similar to those shown in the catalogues (see above post) some of which were marked with GR.
Which, I think, is why you sometimes see what appears to be an 1814 blade with a hilt that is much less than the double disk.

regards, CC.

19th February 2017, 03:16 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	This looks like one for Cap'n Mark Eley!!!! What does Gilkerson have to say on these? I would have been inclined to agree with the private purchase variant idea but for the GR.

19th February 2017, 03:33 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	Could not find Gilkerson, but Neumann ("Swords and Blades of the American Revolution", 1973) #364.S, has a cutlass with this heavy type blade dating 1740-60 at 19"; there is no marking, but the wide blade with radiused hatchet type point is identified American/European. #376.S is an English cutlass with similar heavy blade (26") and marked to ship The Thomas of Selby on both the sheet steel guard and blade (dated 1770-1800). It is noted these type blades seen on English cutlasses into early 1800s. Perhaps this is a prototype for the 'figure 8'? The ribbed iron grips were used of course on customs and other civil service groups, but unsure if these would have had the crowned GR.

19th February 2017, 03:33 AM	#4
Terry K Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 86	Fine looking cutlass, congrats. My friend just picked up one of the nicest US 1860? one

19th February 2017, 12:23 PM	#5
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 366	Nice cutlass. Remember this thread back in 2013 on machetes - it discussed the GR used by commercial makers and shows some 19th century catalogues for cutlasses and machetes. One is reprinted from Gilkerson. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...549#post163549 regards, CC

19th February 2017, 01:13 PM	#6
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 366	According to Gilkerson the cast iron handle with 18 ribs and 6 vertical grooves first appeared on the Brit 1804 cutlass. The handle was almost straight. Later versions of the handle are more shaped with a swelling and slight curve at the end to fit in the hand better. The 1830's coastguard cutlass is an example. And this one - courtesy of Cap'n Mark. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12145 The straight handle on yours would tend to indicate nearer the early part of the century. The 1814 appears with both types of handle. But for a cutlass that did not go into production there are an awful lot of examples. I believe most of these were private purchase using blades similar to those shown in the catalogues (see above post) some of which were marked with GR. Which, I think, is why you sometimes see what appears to be an 1814 blade with a hilt that is much less than the double disk. regards, CC.