What kind of sword is this?

Jim McDougall · 12th February 2017, 08:31 PM

Ian, outstanding! and I really look forward to your input on this with your knowledge of the arms of these regions. Very well noted on Viet Nam, which was indeed known as Cochin China well through the 19th c. and the note on Tonquinese work of course refers to reference to Viet Nam as well.

I am far outside my usual fields here, but I am curious on that squared chape sleeve on the scabbard. I know I have seen this feature on Burmese dha (inscriptions in that language supporting that I.D.) though not as clear on whether on Siamese, nor Viet Namese for that matter.

It seems that type squared chape is on earlier Chinese dao scabbards in similar mounts which (if memory serves) was termed 'fang chloe' or words t that effect. Given the profound influence of China in these SE Asian regions, would that distinctive style have diffused there accordingly?

Interesting that this painting did indeed prove to be Dutch, in fact a student of Rembrandt, and perhaps Rembrandt's proclivity to using 'exotic' arms in his work so influenced this student, maybe even others. It seems that often works attributed to Rembrandt himself in recent times have proven to be actually by individuals in his school. ..for example "Man in the Golden Helmet".

ArmsAndAntiques · 12th February 2017, 11:27 PM

You can view the painting here in very high resolution which shows the detail on the hilt and scabbard to very good effect.

http://www.daytonartinstitute.org/ar.../ferdinand-bol

The description of the painting is fascinating and notes that both Rembrandt and Bol used the same "props" and the same are found in a painting in the Hermitage. Though on viewing that example the sword is quite different. The description from the Dayton Art Institute is below:

"This full-length and larger-than-life-sized portrait of a young dandy, once thought to be a self-portrait, most certainly dates from Ferdinand Bol's years in Rembrandt van Rijn's studio. It would seem to be inspired by several of Rembrandt's self-portraits and other works of the same period. Rembrandt's Reconciliation of David and Absalom of 1642, in the collection of the Hermitage in St. Petersburg, uses almost identical objects to the ones found in Bol's portrait. In the aforementioned Rembrandt and in Bol's portrait, a quiver of arrows, a heavily embroidered velvet tunic, and a velvet scabbarded sword are the studio props evidently shared by master and pupil.

Bol also shared Rembrandt's fascination with unusual costumes and gear. The great sword, fashionable high-heeled leather boots, the richly embroidered clothes, velvet cloak, and plumed cap are far removed from the sober, black garb of most Dutch citizens. Rather, they have more in common with the brightly colored costumes of the subjects favored by Michelangelo Merisi da Caravaggio (1573 - 1610), a revolutionary and controversial Italian artist whose paintings influenced a generation of artists across Europe. Although grounded in a keen observation of detail, the sensuously depicted, exotic finery lends an air of fantasy to this portrait of an unknown friend or artist colleague of Bol's."

To my eye, the embossing on the middle part of the hilt does appear to have some aspects reminiscent of Thai swords.

http://www.arscives.com/historysteel.../257-mib05.jpg

http://www.arscives.com/historysteel.../256-ayw12.jpg

Regards
LL

12th February 2017, 08:31 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,195	Ian, outstanding! and I really look forward to your input on this with your knowledge of the arms of these regions. Very well noted on Viet Nam, which was indeed known as Cochin China well through the 19th c. and the note on Tonquinese work of course refers to reference to Viet Nam as well. I am far outside my usual fields here, but I am curious on that squared chape sleeve on the scabbard. I know I have seen this feature on Burmese dha (inscriptions in that language supporting that I.D.) though not as clear on whether on Siamese, nor Viet Namese for that matter. It seems that type squared chape is on earlier Chinese dao scabbards in similar mounts which (if memory serves) was termed 'fang chloe' or words t that effect. Given the profound influence of China in these SE Asian regions, would that distinctive style have diffused there accordingly? Interesting that this painting did indeed prove to be Dutch, in fact a student of Rembrandt, and perhaps Rembrandt's proclivity to using 'exotic' arms in his work so influenced this student, maybe even others. It seems that often works attributed to Rembrandt himself in recent times have proven to be actually by individuals in his school. ..for example "Man in the Golden Helmet".

12th February 2017, 11:27 PM	#2
ArmsAndAntiques Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 80	You can view the painting here in very high resolution which shows the detail on the hilt and scabbard to very good effect. http://www.daytonartinstitute.org/ar.../ferdinand-bol The description of the painting is fascinating and notes that both Rembrandt and Bol used the same "props" and the same are found in a painting in the Hermitage. Though on viewing that example the sword is quite different. The description from the Dayton Art Institute is below: "This full-length and larger-than-life-sized portrait of a young dandy, once thought to be a self-portrait, most certainly dates from Ferdinand Bol's years in Rembrandt van Rijn's studio. It would seem to be inspired by several of Rembrandt's self-portraits and other works of the same period. Rembrandt's Reconciliation of David and Absalom of 1642, in the collection of the Hermitage in St. Petersburg, uses almost identical objects to the ones found in Bol's portrait. In the aforementioned Rembrandt and in Bol's portrait, a quiver of arrows, a heavily embroidered velvet tunic, and a velvet scabbarded sword are the studio props evidently shared by master and pupil. Bol also shared Rembrandt's fascination with unusual costumes and gear. The great sword, fashionable high-heeled leather boots, the richly embroidered clothes, velvet cloak, and plumed cap are far removed from the sober, black garb of most Dutch citizens. Rather, they have more in common with the brightly colored costumes of the subjects favored by Michelangelo Merisi da Caravaggio (1573 - 1610), a revolutionary and controversial Italian artist whose paintings influenced a generation of artists across Europe. Although grounded in a keen observation of detail, the sensuously depicted, exotic finery lends an air of fantasy to this portrait of an unknown friend or artist colleague of Bol's." To my eye, the embossing on the middle part of the hilt does appear to have some aspects reminiscent of Thai swords. http://www.arscives.com/historysteel.../257-mib05.jpg http://www.arscives.com/historysteel.../256-ayw12.jpg Regards LL