Middle eastern musket ID help

BlacksmithingWitch · 9th February 2017, 10:23 PM

the front of the wooden stock has a metal cover that covers the last few inches of the stock and a few foreward onto the barrel, and by the coloration there was a band there thats become lost over the decades. there is a plate on the butt of the stock as well, engraved with similar decoration as the piece on the muzzle end of the stock and as the lock of the gun. The rosette made me think Japan also but I dont know what a smooth bore gun of caplock style would be doing in japan, much less how it is covered in middle eastern or indian looking motifs and gold inlay Its really a mystery to me but then again, thats why ive brought it to this forum

Martin Lubojacky · 10th February 2017, 07:25 AM

The rosettes on engraved additionally on such stocks were common in Anatolya, too.

BlacksmithingWitch · 10th February 2017, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

The rosettes on engraved additionally on such stocks were common in Anatolya, too.

the decorations other than that seemed turkish or from that vicinity, from what I know and have seen on hookah pipes and other items from the area.

Kubur · 10th February 2017, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

The rosettes on engraved additionally on such stocks were common in Anatolya, too.

In North Africa too!
I bet this rifle is Persian/North Indian...

BlacksmithingWitch · 14th February 2017, 10:19 PM

any more ideas/ thoughts on it from what ive shown thus far? and any idea of a possible timeframe? the barrel is hexagonal at the chamber but that only goes for about two inches before tapering to round. Its such an interesting thing to me, to the point im looking for a barrel thats sold in modern muzzle loader kits to see if it would be possible to replicate this gun with a firable copy.

rickystl · 16th February 2017, 02:40 AM

Hi Blacksmith.

Welcome to the Forum. A very interesting gun. I'm out of town at the moment, but will offer some comments this weekend. An interesting gun that appears to be a compilation of various parts re-used with a (then) new made stock. The lock, trigger, and guard appear to be Europen surplus used to assemble the gun.
But I want to check a couple of my reference books this weekend.

Rick.

BlacksmithingWitch · 16th February 2017, 03:15 AM

If its not particularly historically important ive been toying with the idea of having a gunsmith putting the lock and barrel onto a new stock and making it serviceable again, as you say this may have been done before at a much earlier time

rickystl · 19th February 2017, 04:33 PM

Hi Blacksmith.

I think (?) the lock was from an 1859 French Service Musket, and engraved locally to suit the owner. See photos. And possibly the trigger, guard, and rear sight from the same musket. Maybe the Forum members from the European side can confirm this. The barrel and percussion bolster look to be locally made. And the stock made by a local gunsmith to suit regional/local taste. I'm thinking Indian or Afghan, and leaning to the latter. A tough call with this one. But also a very interesting gun.
It would be helpful if you could post some additional photos such as the trigger guard, butt plate, and that brass piece at the muzzle end. Also, the inside of the lock. There may be some ID on the inside of the lock plate, if originally a military lock.

Question: Why would you need a new stock for shooting ?

Rick

kahnjar1 · 19th February 2017, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlacksmithingWitch

If its not particularly historically important ive been toying with the idea of having a gunsmith putting the lock and barrel onto a new stock and making it serviceable again, as you say this may have been done before at a much earlier time

I am confused here. Why would you replace the stock to make the item fireable? The important part (if you plan to shoot it) is the barrel. However if the barrel is in good order, why ruin a beautiful and interesting gun, simply so you can shoot it. I have over the years safely shot many old and antique weapons, none of which have had a new barrel, or a liner to the old one.
BUT first have a COMPETENT Gunsmith check the barrel inside and out before you fire it. Also do not be tempted to use modern nitro powder as the burning characteristics are VERY different from Black Powder. Probably you are aware of this already, but a word of caution is never out of place.
One final comment......What a shame to ruin a very nice and unusual piece......but it is yours to do with what you wish I guess.
Stu

19th February 2017, 04:33 PM	#8
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	Hi Blacksmith. I think (?) the lock was from an 1859 French Service Musket, and engraved locally to suit the owner. See photos. And possibly the trigger, guard, and rear sight from the same musket. Maybe the Forum members from the European side can confirm this. The barrel and percussion bolster look to be locally made. And the stock made by a local gunsmith to suit regional/local taste. I'm thinking Indian or Afghan, and leaning to the latter. A tough call with this one. But also a very interesting gun. It would be helpful if you could post some additional photos such as the trigger guard, butt plate, and that brass piece at the muzzle end. Also, the inside of the lock. There may be some ID on the inside of the lock plate, if originally a military lock. Question: Why would you need a new stock for shooting ? Rick Attached Images

9th February 2017, 10:23 PM	#1
BlacksmithingWitch Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 13	the front of the wooden stock has a metal cover that covers the last few inches of the stock and a few foreward onto the barrel, and by the coloration there was a band there thats become lost over the decades. there is a plate on the butt of the stock as well, engraved with similar decoration as the piece on the muzzle end of the stock and as the lock of the gun. The rosette made me think Japan also but I dont know what a smooth bore gun of caplock style would be doing in japan, much less how it is covered in middle eastern or indian looking motifs and gold inlay Its really a mystery to me but then again, thats why ive brought it to this forum

10th February 2017, 07:25 AM	#2
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 845	The rosettes on engraved additionally on such stocks were common in Anatolya, too.

14th February 2017, 10:19 PM	#5
BlacksmithingWitch Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 13	any more ideas/ thoughts on it from what ive shown thus far? and any idea of a possible timeframe? the barrel is hexagonal at the chamber but that only goes for about two inches before tapering to round. Its such an interesting thing to me, to the point im looking for a barrel thats sold in modern muzzle loader kits to see if it would be possible to replicate this gun with a firable copy.

16th February 2017, 02:40 AM	#6
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,633	Hi Blacksmith. Welcome to the Forum. A very interesting gun. I'm out of town at the moment, but will offer some comments this weekend. An interesting gun that appears to be a compilation of various parts re-used with a (then) new made stock. The lock, trigger, and guard appear to be Europen surplus used to assemble the gun. But I want to check a couple of my reference books this weekend. Rick.

16th February 2017, 03:15 AM	#7
BlacksmithingWitch Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 13	If its not particularly historically important ive been toying with the idea of having a gunsmith putting the lock and barrel onto a new stock and making it serviceable again, as you say this may have been done before at a much earlier time