Omani barrel.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 6th February 2017, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Thank you for adding these photos Ibrahiim, they do show the dragon well, and relationship between the sword finials and pan area.

All I can say is that there is more likelihood of these barrels coming from Persia or Northern India/Afghanistan, than there is of them coming from Germany as some think, and this because of the dragon heads.
I do not know of any Germanic tradition of using dragon heads on gun parts, Other than the serpent which holds the match....and cannons at the mouth.
Having said that, Germanic and Italian barrels from the 1500's could indeed be fluted Very like these!

Salaams Pukka Bundook~I have seen Portuguese and other European dragon/serpent locks on guns and whilst searching for a European armoury thread at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22315
I stumbled on this below...

Please see https://books.google.com.om/books?id...tols&f=falseon about page 127...128 showing dragon/serpentine locks. Fine detail on page 127 and the following pages goes on to further discuss the origins of the Dragon Motif on European guns.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Pukka Bundook · 6th February 2017, 03:01 PM

Dear Ibrahiim,

I too have seen dragon/serpent decoration on European Locks, but it is on the barrels, (apart from cannon), that I can not recall seeing dragons represented. The decoration on these in the O. P still appears Indo-Persian....with more of the emphasis on the Persian part!

As time permits, I will spend longer looking though! Some Italian barrels once owned by Henry V111 were fluted Vey like these in question, but do not recall any such dragon device around the pan.

Interesting subject, and one that is as painstaking as an archaeological dig!

Below are comparison between pulouar finials and pan decoration;

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 7th February 2017, 11:46 AM

Salaams Pukka Bundook ~That is an interesting play on the geometric figure 3 on sword and Matchlock..probably Talismanic...and looking at the rest of the pan construction I see a hollow rectangle reminding me of the hollow form on Talismanic archeological nails...apparently to prevent the Devil climbing up...See #10 at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...itectural+Nail . All very interesting.

See~ http://www.omanisilver.com/contents/...ck.html:shrug:
for their rendition of MATCHLOCK/GUNS...with an exellent historical set of references on the Omani Matchlock and associated equipments..

On origin of species I saw this report recently at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket viz;

Quote"The arquebus made its way to the island of Sri Lanka (formerly Ceylon), though the date is disputed. The earliest date is the 14th century where a copperplate inscription of Parakarama Bahu IV (1302-1326) refers to two persons who were declared exempt from certain taxes which included "gun licenses". Many believe that it was the Portuguese who first brought over muskets during their conquest of the Sri Lankan coastline and low lands in 1505, as they regularly used short barreled matchlocks during combat.

However, P.E.P.Deraniyagala points out that the Sinhala term for gun, ‘bondikula’ matches the Arabic term for gun, ‘bunduk’. Also, certain technical aspects of the early Sinhalese matchlock were similar to the matchlocks used in the Middle East, thus forming the generally accepted theory that the musket was not entirely new to the island by the time the Portuguese came.

In any case, soon native Sri Lankan kingdoms, most notably the kingdom of Sitawaka and the Kandyan Kingdom, manufactured hundreds of Sinhalese muskets, with a unique bifurcated stock, longer barrel and smaller calibre, which made it more efficient in directing and using the energy of the gunpowder. These were mastered by native soldiers to the point where, according to the Portuguese chronicler, Queirós, they could "fire at night to put out a match" and "by day at 60 paces would sever a knife with four or five bullets" and "send as many on the same spot in the target."Unquote.

Pukka Bundook · 7th February 2017, 03:54 PM

Dear Ibrahiim,

Very interesting regarding the talismanic nails!
I think you have "nailed" it!
The hollow rectangle you see in front of the pan is actually cut out in both directions, so is Exactly the same as the nails you show in the other thread.

This to me removes all doubt that the barrels are indeed Persian rather than German. Thank you for that!!

There is good reason to protect the touch-hole area from evil....do not want the devil messing up your powder igniting when it counts. :-)
I have attached your 'Nail " photos for the sake of clarity. Thank you again!
The second link you kindly posted will not work.

Pukka Bundook · 7th February 2017, 04:28 PM

Also wish to say I have recently found more photos of this type of barrel,
One stocked up in Sindi fashion, and one only yesterday in regular Torador fashion!
Please pardon poor pictures.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 8th February 2017, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Dear Ibrahiim,

Very interesting regarding the talismanic nails!
I think you have "nailed" it!
The hollow rectangle you see in front of the pan is actually cut out in both directions, so is Exactly the same as the nails you show in the other thread.

This to me removes all doubt that the barrels are indeed Persian rather than German. Thank you for that!!

There is good reason to protect the touch-hole area from evil....do not want the devil messing up your powder igniting when it counts. :-)
I have attached your 'Nail " photos for the sake of clarity. Thank you again!
The second link you kindly posted will not work.

Indeed having the Devil mess with that part of the weapon could prove costly...Thank you for making the bridge between the architectural talismanic nail and the gun architecture..which I agree fairly well supports the Persian concept although more evidence linking Sinhalese weapons may surface...not least the written proof that THE PURCHASE of 200 or more weapons was made by the Omanis a few hundred years ago as seen at omanisilver.com On that subject please try http://omanisilver.com/index.html

Pukka Bundook · 9th February 2017, 02:53 PM

Thank you for the "Omani Silver" link, Ibrahiim!

The information is Very interesting, And very thorough!!

This Does add another aspect to this barrel question.
Reading through the "Matchlock" part, the early description does sound like these barrels, except it says the barrels were to be 'thick', with gold /silver at the breech, mid-section and muzzle.

The very small bore sounds spot on, And the dragon on the pan area Also seems the same on the one shown photographed at the museum, compared to those above, so whether these barrels came from Ceylon Or Persia I do not know!!??!.
It appears that Both types bore Persian /Arabic inscriptions, but is the barrel illustrated from the same region as the one ones above?? The decoration is very different....
According to Elgood, many if not most Singalese matchlocks had the pan on the left side, as they for some reason were often fitted with left-hand locks.
If this is a fact, it narrows down the possibility of these barrels being in the original 200 ordered from Ceylon.
Also, the typical Omani barrels I have seen do not have the gold/silver at the breech, middle, and muzzle, as the ones in the 200 purchased seem to have had.
Yes, a little silver band or so just forward of the breech, and maybe a band somewhat behind the muzzle, but is this what is being described?
I think I know why no real books have been written about this up to now!

More questions than answers...
Thank you for all your contributions, Ibrahiim!
Have you had opportunity to visit this museum?

Very best wishes,
Richard.

PS, I feel a bit bogged down and need to think over all the additional information. All so Interesting!

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 10th February 2017, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Thank you for the "Omani Silver" link, Ibrahiim!

The information is Very interesting, And very thorough!!

This Does add another aspect to this barrel question.
Reading through the "Matchlock" part, the early description does sound like these barrels, except it says the barrels were to be 'thick', with gold /silver at the breech, mid-section and muzzle.

The very small bore sounds spot on, And the dragon on the pan area Also seems the same on the one shown photographed at the museum, compared to those above, so whether these barrels came from Ceylon Or Persia I do not know!!??!.
It appears that Both types bore Persian /Arabic inscriptions, but is the barrel illustrated from the same region as the one ones above?? The decoration is very different....
According to Elgood, many if not most Singalese matchlocks had the pan on the left side, as they for some reason were often fitted with left-hand locks.
If this is a fact, it narrows down the possibility of these barrels being in the original 200 ordered from Ceylon.
Also, the typical Omani barrels I have seen do not have the gold/silver at the breech, middle, and muzzle, as the ones in the 200 purchased seem to have had.
Yes, a little silver band or so just forward of the breech, and maybe a band somewhat behind the muzzle, but is this what is being described?
I think I know why no real books have been written about this up to now!

More questions than answers...
Thank you for all your contributions, Ibrahiim!
Have you had opportunity to visit this museum?

Very best wishes,
Richard.

PS, I feel a bit bogged down and need to think over all the additional information. All so Interesting!

Salaams Pukka Bundook ~ Omani Silver dot com is a virtual museum but is being regularly updated. Regarding Sri Lankan influence ~The left fitted pan arrangement did happen there..and there is much about the Portuguese transfer of technology in gunpowder weapons .. although guns appear there before the advent of the Portuguese.

I believe a number of points of the compass witnessed weapons coming to Oman including from Persian, European, Red Sea and Sri Lankan trade. Delving into the facts is hugely difficult when you consider when Oman re emerged from the dark ages in about 1970.

6th February 2017, 03:01 PM	#2
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Dear Ibrahiim, I too have seen dragon/serpent decoration on European Locks, but it is on the barrels, (apart from cannon), that I can not recall seeing dragons represented. The decoration on these in the O. P still appears Indo-Persian....with more of the emphasis on the Persian part! As time permits, I will spend longer looking though! Some Italian barrels once owned by Henry V111 were fluted Vey like these in question, but do not recall any such dragon device around the pan. Interesting subject, and one that is as painstaking as an archaeological dig! Below are comparison between pulouar finials and pan decoration; Attached Images Last edited by Pukka Bundook; 6th February 2017 at 03:25 PM.

7th February 2017, 11:46 AM	#3
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams Pukka Bundook ~That is an interesting play on the geometric figure 3 on sword and Matchlock..probably Talismanic...and looking at the rest of the pan construction I see a hollow rectangle reminding me of the hollow form on Talismanic archeological nails...apparently to prevent the Devil climbing up...See #10 at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...itectural+Nail . All very interesting. See~ http://www.omanisilver.com/contents/...ck.html:shrug: for their rendition of MATCHLOCK/GUNS...with an exellent historical set of references on the Omani Matchlock and associated equipments.. On origin of species I saw this report recently at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket viz; Quote"The arquebus made its way to the island of Sri Lanka (formerly Ceylon), though the date is disputed. The earliest date is the 14th century where a copperplate inscription of Parakarama Bahu IV (1302-1326) refers to two persons who were declared exempt from certain taxes which included "gun licenses". Many believe that it was the Portuguese who first brought over muskets during their conquest of the Sri Lankan coastline and low lands in 1505, as they regularly used short barreled matchlocks during combat. However, P.E.P.Deraniyagala points out that the Sinhala term for gun, ‘bondikula’ matches the Arabic term for gun, ‘bunduk’. Also, certain technical aspects of the early Sinhalese matchlock were similar to the matchlocks used in the Middle East, thus forming the generally accepted theory that the musket was not entirely new to the island by the time the Portuguese came. In any case, soon native Sri Lankan kingdoms, most notably the kingdom of Sitawaka and the Kandyan Kingdom, manufactured hundreds of Sinhalese muskets, with a unique bifurcated stock, longer barrel and smaller calibre, which made it more efficient in directing and using the energy of the gunpowder. These were mastered by native soldiers to the point where, according to the Portuguese chronicler, Queirós, they could "fire at night to put out a match" and "by day at 60 paces would sever a knife with four or five bullets" and "send as many on the same spot in the target."Unquote. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 7th February 2017 at 12:38 PM.

7th February 2017, 03:54 PM	#4
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Dear Ibrahiim, Very interesting regarding the talismanic nails! I think you have "nailed" it! The hollow rectangle you see in front of the pan is actually cut out in both directions, so is Exactly the same as the nails you show in the other thread. This to me removes all doubt that the barrels are indeed Persian rather than German. Thank you for that!! There is good reason to protect the touch-hole area from evil....do not want the devil messing up your powder igniting when it counts. :-) I have attached your 'Nail " photos for the sake of clarity. Thank you again! The second link you kindly posted will not work. Attached Images Last edited by Pukka Bundook; 7th February 2017 at 04:11 PM.

7th February 2017, 04:28 PM	#5
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Also wish to say I have recently found more photos of this type of barrel, One stocked up in Sindi fashion, and one only yesterday in regular Torador fashion! Please pardon poor pictures. Attached Images

9th February 2017, 02:53 PM	#7
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Thank you for the "Omani Silver" link, Ibrahiim! The information is Very interesting, And very thorough!! This Does add another aspect to this barrel question. Reading through the "Matchlock" part, the early description does sound like these barrels, except it says the barrels were to be 'thick', with gold /silver at the breech, mid-section and muzzle. The very small bore sounds spot on, And the dragon on the pan area Also seems the same on the one shown photographed at the museum, compared to those above, so whether these barrels came from Ceylon Or Persia I do not know!!??!. It appears that Both types bore Persian /Arabic inscriptions, but is the barrel illustrated from the same region as the one ones above?? The decoration is very different.... According to Elgood, many if not most Singalese matchlocks had the pan on the left side, as they for some reason were often fitted with left-hand locks. If this is a fact, it narrows down the possibility of these barrels being in the original 200 ordered from Ceylon. Also, the typical Omani barrels I have seen do not have the gold/silver at the breech, middle, and muzzle, as the ones in the 200 purchased seem to have had. Yes, a little silver band or so just forward of the breech, and maybe a band somewhat behind the muzzle, but is this what is being described? I think I know why no real books have been written about this up to now! More questions than answers... Thank you for all your contributions, Ibrahiim! Have you had opportunity to visit this museum? Very best wishes, Richard. PS, I feel a bit bogged down and need to think over all the additional information. All so Interesting!