Another early shibriya

ariel · 29th January 2017, 02:41 AM

There is a guy in Latvia named Denis Cherevichnik who is into history of knife fights around the world ( he even wrote a big book about it with deep analysis of literally hundreds of historical sources in several languages and spanning several centuries).

He published an article ( in Russian, unfortunately for most of the Forumites) about Sica, a dog-leg curved Roman ( or Dacian) dagger. To make the long story short, he makes connection between Sica and Shibria. Indeed, they look virtually identical. Whether it is a case of parallel development or of some atavistic feature is uncertain, but the idea is intriguing.

A.alnakkas · 29th January 2017, 06:13 AM

This may be weaker than a hypothesis, but upon examining shibriya blades, I always get the impression that it is a crude imitation of the khanjar curve that eventually gave way to this type.

Miguel · 29th January 2017, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

This may be weaker than a hypothesis, but upon examining shibriya blades, I always get the impression that it is a crude imitation of the khanjar curve that eventually gave way to this type.

I can see where you are coming from as the same thoughts had occurred to me but I'm not at all certain that this is the case. Incidentally does any of the script on the blades of No`s 3 & 5 make any sense to you.

Regards
Miguel

ariel · 29th January 2017, 04:22 PM

Lotfy,

It is not as simple. Google Sica Images and look at old excavated examples. They are "dog-leg", unlike gently curving khanjars. The unusual form of shibriya is deliberate and without an analogue anywhere else, except for Sica:-)

Please recall Judean "sicarii" around the time of Roman destruction of Second Temple. History has quite a lot of unusual twists and we might be wise to keep snippets of strange occurencies in the back of our collective mind. Of course, the connection between the two is nebulous and has no proof. But who knows? Sooner or later we might find actual facts confirming or refuting this hypothesis.

Miguel · 29th January 2017, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

There is a guy in Latvia named Denis Cherevichnik who is into history of knife fights around the world ( he even wrote a big book about it with deep analysis of literally hundreds of historical sources in several languages and spanning several centuries).

He published an article ( in Russian, unfortunately for most of the Forumites) about Sica, a dog-leg curved Roman ( or Dacian) dagger. To make the long story short, he makes connection between Sica and Shibria. Indeed, they look virtually identical. Whether it is a case of parallel development or of some atavistic feature is uncertain, but the idea is intriguing.

Hello Ariel, Interesting idea worth looking into.
Regards
Miguel

29th January 2017, 02:41 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	There is a guy in Latvia named Denis Cherevichnik who is into history of knife fights around the world ( he even wrote a big book about it with deep analysis of literally hundreds of historical sources in several languages and spanning several centuries). He published an article ( in Russian, unfortunately for most of the Forumites) about Sica, a dog-leg curved Roman ( or Dacian) dagger. To make the long story short, he makes connection between Sica and Shibria. Indeed, they look virtually identical. Whether it is a case of parallel development or of some atavistic feature is uncertain, but the idea is intriguing.

29th January 2017, 06:13 AM	#2
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	This may be weaker than a hypothesis, but upon examining shibriya blades, I always get the impression that it is a crude imitation of the khanjar curve that eventually gave way to this type.

29th January 2017, 04:22 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Lotfy, It is not as simple. Google Sica Images and look at old excavated examples. They are "dog-leg", unlike gently curving khanjars. The unusual form of shibriya is deliberate and without an analogue anywhere else, except for Sica:-) Please recall Judean "sicarii" around the time of Roman destruction of Second Temple. History has quite a lot of unusual twists and we might be wise to keep snippets of strange occurencies in the back of our collective mind. Of course, the connection between the two is nebulous and has no proof. But who knows? Sooner or later we might find actual facts confirming or refuting this hypothesis.