Basket hilted swords

[kronckew]

bit more contemporary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2gDkcpYnMc

a slightly better version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8LPu8Jzjxg

we even have our own tartan

(i'm prejudiced. they are somewhat better fed - and a tad older )

[Cathey]

Hi Guys

Not all basket hilts are actually Scottish, but how can you tell if its a Scottish Basket Hilt or a British Basket Hilt. Even the Baron of Earlshall in Volume 1 of his new book is cautious about a definitive answer as such and whilst his book is titled "The Scottish Basket Hilted Sword" it contains just as many British Basket hilts. Just to add to our confusion it may be British in manufacture but used by a Scottish Regiment and of course the Scott's where not renowned for blade making so a British manufactured blade on a Scottish Basket is not unusual either.

Whilst their will always be anomalies, two principle indicators are worth considering. 1st the pommel shape, many British military swords have what "Mazansky" refers to as a bun pommel. Scottish swords, more often than not have a more conical shaped pommel often with incised decoration. The second indicator can be found on the underside of the guard. In most British basket hilts the tang fits neatly into the sword slot, whilst in Scottish examples there is often a longer recess that may even be wider than the actual blade, thus comfortably seating the blade as such.

I have probably explained this rather badly so I have attached some pictures that I hope will better convey what to look for. The Baron does say in his book that whilst some Scottish swords do not have this extended sword recess, he has never seen the feature on a British example. So whilst we still can't be sure a basket is Scottish, if it has the extended recess under the guard we can be reasonably confident that it isn't British.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

[Cerjak]

Dear Cathey and Rex
Really useful information many thanks .
Best
Cerjak

[NeilUK]

I'll second Cerjak's comment. I had not appreciated that point about the blade/tang slot in the base of the basket. Thank you.
Neil

[Cathey]

Hi Guys

Running out of old Baskets to post, now moving into the Victorian era.

Date: Pattern 1828 Wilkinson number for 1857
Maker/Retailer: Wilkinson
Overall Length: 42 1/16” 106.8 cm
Blade length: 36” 91.4 cm blade only
Blade widest point: 1 5/16” 3.3 cm
Hilt widest point: 5 5/8” 14.4 cm
Inside grip length: 4” 10.2 cm
Marks, etc. Engraved Death when struck to death from sleepless grave, great Jesu stoop a sin stained soul to save’ then in Gaelic ‘NA TARRAIN MI GUN AOBHAR NA CUIR SUAS MI QUN CHLIU’ Also has crest and moto for Godley ‘Sans Dieu Rien’. Wilkinson Number 8214 or 1857

Description
Basket Hilt-Scottish-Pattern 1828-HRC Godley
Victorian officers regimental broadsword attributed to Henry Robert Crewe Godley, the ricasso is engraved H.R.C.G below the family crest and moto ‘Sans Dieu Rien’. The blade is etched on one side with Death when struck to death from sleepless grave, great Jesu stoop a sin stained soul to save’ then on the other in Gaelic ‘NA TARRAIN MI GUN AOBHAR NA CUIR SUAS MI QUN CHLIU’ which translates to Draw me not without cause and sheath me not without honour. The blade also features the maker Henry Wilkinson Pall Mall London number 8124. The hilt with a regulation steel basket retaining the original red faced leather liner.

Provenance
Major Godley served with the 28th Regiment in the Eastern campaign of 1854 and up to the5th July 1855, including the battles of Alma and Inkerman, siege of Sebastopol, and affair in the Cemetery – severely wounded (Medal and three Clasps, Brevet Major, 5th Class of the Medjidi, and Turkish Medal.

Service History – Henry Robert Crewe Godley
1828: Birth Year (Estimated)
25/9/1846: Ensign, Henry Robert Crewe Godley, Gent, to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Shute. Dated 25th September 1846
2/7/1848: Lieutenant, Ensign Henry Robert Crewe Godley to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Jeffery. Dated 21st July 1848.
17/2/1854: Captain
18/6/1855: Godley, Henry Robert Crewe Captain 28th Foot (North Gloucestershire) Severe Wound 1st Attack on the Redan 18 June 1855
6/6/1856: Brevet-Major Captain H. R. C. Godley, 28th Foot Dated 6th June 1856
17/4/1860: Retired by Sale of Commission
20/1/1869: Deceased Surname Godley, Deceased Forename Henry Robert Crewe, Primary Beneficiary/Executor Frances Eliza Godley, Date of Death20 Jan 1869, County of Death Dublin
Photograph 1 Fenton Photograph of Captain Godley mounted on a horse facing left. He is wearing military uniform and has a sword by his side. There is an area of open land behind him. Captain Godley served with the 28th Regiment during the Crimean War.

The Mystery is what prompted Godley to purchase a claymore in 1857?

Cheers

Cathey and Rex

[Cathey]

Hi Guys

Picked up this Sergeants Basket Hilt Crimea Period recently by Garden.
Nationality: British
Date: 1852 pattern
Maker/Retailer: GARDEN
Overall Length: 40 3/8” 102.4 cm in scabbard 39” 99cm sword only
Blade length: 33” 83.9 cm, fuller 8 ½” 21.7 cm
Blade widest point: 1 ½”
Hilt widest point: 7” 17.5 cm
Inside grip length: 4 ¼” 10.5 cm
Marks, etc.: Stamped I over 4 on the Wrist Guard, Etched GARDEN 200 Piccadilly LONDON in the fuller

Description
Scottish Staff Sergeant Sword Mark I.
Large Steel Basket with Fishskin grip bound with copper wire. Plain Broadsword blade with short central fuller engraved GARDEN 200 Piccadilly LONDON. Leather scabbard with two steel mounts and frog.

Interestingly it is marked with a 1 over 4 on the wrist guard, no idea what this means but probably confirms that this is a NCO sword not an Officers.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

[Cathey]

Hi Guys

Need to update my description due to new information about this Sergeants Basket Hilt Sword by Garden.

Nationality: British
Date: 1857 pattern official introduction, Sword appears to pre-date pattern introduction
Maker/Retailer: Hugh GARDEN
Overall Length: 40 3/8” 102.4 cm in scabbard 39” 99cm sword only
Blade length: 33” 83.9 cm, fuller 8 ½” 21.7 cm
Blade widest point: 1 ½”
Hilt widest point: 7” 17.5 cm
Inside grip length: 4 ¼” 10.5 cm
Marks, etc.: Stamped I over 4 on the Wrist Guard, Etched GARDEN 200 Piccadilly LONDON in the fuller
Description

Scottish Staff Sergeant Sword Mark I.
Extremely Large Steel Basket with Fishskin grip bound with copper wire. Plain Broadsword blade with short central fuller etched GARDEN 200 Piccadilly LONDON. Leather scabbard with two steel mounts and frog.

Interestingly it is marked with a 1 over 4 on the wrist guard, no idea what this means but probably confirms that this is a NCO sword not an Officers.

General Remarks
Due to chat with Gordon Byrne this morning I need to edit my description of this sword. Firstly the pattern as such was introduced in 1857 not 1852. However, too much emphasis is placed on recorded pattern dates, swords could have evolved prior to the actual official date of introduction. As this sword in etched GARDEN not Garden and Sons it is likely by Hugh Garden 1827-1851 200 Piccadilly, Army Accoutrements and Saddler. Whilst this sword appears to comply with the general description of the sword introduced in 1857, the maker would have been Hugh Garden who died in 1852, and there are similar examples that pre-date the Indian Mutiny.

Cheers Cathey and Rex