Large Eagle Head Sword for ID

Hotspur · 24th January 2017, 07:40 PM

Sorry to be so absent. I have been in the process of moving and have limited access at this point. I could make more excuses like my books are packed up but I don't quickly recognize this bird.. Would it be possible to get a straight on profile shot from both sides in natural light (no flash)?

It would not be Widmann for a couple of reasons. Widmann imported both entire swords and blades from Solingen. Secondly, Woolley predates Widmanns work. It does look a bit like one of the Baltimore birds and would maybe show in the back of Peterson, the Lattimer books or the Medicus collection but I haven't unpacked (literally haven't set up shelving). No crest and huge beak, hmmmm, why am I thinking of a particular Baltimore again but those have a prominent crest.

There is something weird about this whole sword but it is probably the lighting. It is possibly an Emmor T Weaver of Philadelphia, let me find a file I have. That would fit with the timeline. Yup, Emmor T Weaver type. Is there an ET stamped on the guard (mebbe not even if him)? The Woolley blade now makes sense of a whole different ball of wax regarding northeastern seaboard cutlers and possible post war surplus blades. Big hmmmm. The E. Andrew Mowbray old testament for the early eagles discusses Weaver, even Peterson has some thoughts in his book. My mind is a bit mush these days but as often as I am wrong, this time I think I am right. The small langets would lead to one thinking post 1821 fashion but then we have the Woolley blade. Looks like refined cast steel as well.

I'll have some more thoughts, no doubt.

Cheers

GC

Belizechopper · 25th January 2017, 12:25 AM

It does have the long beak like a Weaver but the style of head and shape of beak and general appearance is more Soloman Jackson. Its just to long. Eric

Hotspur · 25th January 2017, 01:34 AM

Good points Eric and in looking at the sword more, the ferrule is what we see on some German swords but then the quillion not unlike Weaver's art in the snake scabbard drag. The scabbard on the lead/object sword looks like a re-fit and not original to the sword.

Cheers

GC

Terry K · 25th January 2017, 04:57 AM

Jim, GC and Eric,
Thanks for taking time to discuss this sword.
I have looked in the Medicus book and didn't see it. However I've missed stuff before. I'm sure that the scabbard is a replacement. I do not see any ET anywhere on it. Here are some more pictures. If not good enough please let me know.
Terry

Terry K · 25th January 2017, 04:58 AM

more

Belizechopper · 25th January 2017, 03:11 PM

When sprinting for eagle heads Glen can be most difficult to keep up with, however; if you do not run you do not get faster. In Mowbray's The American Eagle Pommel Sword there are 2 types displayed and reviewed but photos of three different types shown. The third style very similar to Terry's sword less the extra long beak and unusual attachment of knuckle bow to beak. German style ferrule and Emmor purchased blades and parts from S&K. The hunting sword dog head quillion used extensively by Solingen, interestingly also elongated. What does not fit unless entirely made by German firm is the over all excellent quality of manufacture. Emmor made nice swords but they still look American made. The flared counter guard almost like a transitional slot hilts also unusual. Eric

Jim McDougall · 25th January 2017, 05:02 PM

Absolutely right Eric! There is positively nobody with Glens tenacity and knowledge on these American swords, and I am always in awe as I go back through his detailed and astute entries on forum pages over the years.
I must admit I have been notably complacent in recognizing the powerful intrigue of these eagle heads, and though I had intended to get the late Andrew Mowbray's venerable book many years ago, I never did.

It is now thankfully on the way!!!! and I hope I can catch up with you guys

Thank you again for posting this Terry.

Questions:

1.are those acanthus leaves in the langet ? Could the 'shell' in the knuckleguard be an acanthus as well?

2.Did the English use eagle heads? In my hopeful quest through my 'notes' (dismally inadequate) I found an uncited entry noting a firm, Upson Bros. of New York who had contracts with sources in Birmingham, England. When the war of 1812 began, the swords (and presumably blades) kept filtering through in barrels and trunks labeled as 'canes' and other innocuous commodities.
Could that be the source for a Wooley blade?

24th January 2017, 07:40 PM	#1
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 508	Sorry to be so absent. I have been in the process of moving and have limited access at this point. I could make more excuses like my books are packed up but I don't quickly recognize this bird.. Would it be possible to get a straight on profile shot from both sides in natural light (no flash)? It would not be Widmann for a couple of reasons. Widmann imported both entire swords and blades from Solingen. Secondly, Woolley predates Widmanns work. It does look a bit like one of the Baltimore birds and would maybe show in the back of Peterson, the Lattimer books or the Medicus collection but I haven't unpacked (literally haven't set up shelving). No crest and huge beak, hmmmm, why am I thinking of a particular Baltimore again but those have a prominent crest. There is something weird about this whole sword but it is probably the lighting. It is possibly an Emmor T Weaver of Philadelphia, let me find a file I have. That would fit with the timeline. Yup, Emmor T Weaver type. Is there an ET stamped on the guard (mebbe not even if him)? The Woolley blade now makes sense of a whole different ball of wax regarding northeastern seaboard cutlers and possible post war surplus blades. Big hmmmm. The E. Andrew Mowbray old testament for the early eagles discusses Weaver, even Peterson has some thoughts in his book. My mind is a bit mush these days but as often as I am wrong, this time I think I am right. The small langets would lead to one thinking post 1821 fashion but then we have the Woolley blade. Looks like refined cast steel as well. I'll have some more thoughts, no doubt. Cheers GC Attached Images

25th January 2017, 12:25 AM	#2
Belizechopper Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 10	Soloman Jackson It does have the long beak like a Weaver but the style of head and shape of beak and general appearance is more Soloman Jackson. Its just to long. Eric

25th January 2017, 04:57 AM	#4
Terry K Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 86	Jim, GC and Eric, Thanks for taking time to discuss this sword. I have looked in the Medicus book and didn't see it. However I've missed stuff before. I'm sure that the scabbard is a replacement. I do not see any ET anywhere on it. Here are some more pictures. If not good enough please let me know. Terry Attached Images

25th January 2017, 04:58 AM	#5
Terry K Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 86	more Attached Images

25th January 2017, 03:11 PM	#6
Belizechopper Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 10	Emmor T. Weaver When sprinting for eagle heads Glen can be most difficult to keep up with, however; if you do not run you do not get faster. In Mowbray's The American Eagle Pommel Sword there are 2 types displayed and reviewed but photos of three different types shown. The third style very similar to Terry's sword less the extra long beak and unusual attachment of knuckle bow to beak. German style ferrule and Emmor purchased blades and parts from S&K. The hunting sword dog head quillion used extensively by Solingen, interestingly also elongated. What does not fit unless entirely made by German firm is the over all excellent quality of manufacture. Emmor made nice swords but they still look American made. The flared counter guard almost like a transitional slot hilts also unusual. Eric Attached Images

25th January 2017, 01:34 AM	#3
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 508	Good points Eric and in looking at the sword more, the ferrule is what we see on some German swords but then the quillion not unlike Weaver's art in the snake scabbard drag. The scabbard on the lead/object sword looks like a re-fit and not original to the sword. Cheers GC

25th January 2017, 05:02 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,194	Absolutely right Eric! There is positively nobody with Glens tenacity and knowledge on these American swords, and I am always in awe as I go back through his detailed and astute entries on forum pages over the years. I must admit I have been notably complacent in recognizing the powerful intrigue of these eagle heads, and though I had intended to get the late Andrew Mowbray's venerable book many years ago, I never did. It is now thankfully on the way!!!! and I hope I can catch up with you guys Thank you again for posting this Terry. Questions: 1.are those acanthus leaves in the langet ? Could the 'shell' in the knuckleguard be an acanthus as well? 2.Did the English use eagle heads? In my hopeful quest through my 'notes' (dismally inadequate) I found an uncited entry noting a firm, Upson Bros. of New York who had contracts with sources in Birmingham, England. When the war of 1812 began, the swords (and presumably blades) kept filtering through in barrels and trunks labeled as 'canes' and other innocuous commodities. Could that be the source for a Wooley blade?