Small Sword with long triangular blade

batjka · 22nd January 2017, 03:29 AM

Beautiful smallsword!

I have to disagree with your opinion of smallsword vs a rapier fight though. A rapier is a good bit longer, and is also double the weight. A light smallsword would have a really tough time parrying a rapier as it just doesn't have the mass. And any lunges by a small sword would not reach the intended target as the fighter would likely be impaled on the rapier's point. It is agreed by experts that a smallsword is only good to fight another smallsword. With other weapons, they are at a disadvantage.

Jim McDougall · 22nd January 2017, 04:39 AM

The 'colichemarde' is a blade which evolved in the 17th c. in a transitional sense from rapiers of the time, and was in effect with a heavier extended forte blade which dramatically reduced to a narrower thrusting blade. The idea was actually for a faster blade which could parry the rapier. As noted, the weight of the sword has the weight in the hand, and the point can be maneuvered with extreme rapidity. (Aylward, 1945, p.37).

In "The Smallsword in England", Aylward, p.36, regarding the colichemarde blade of the developing smallsword appearing about 1675, the author notes,
"...one is always reluctant to cast doubt upon a picturesque legend, but it must be confessed that it has not been possible to trace the use of the word colichemarde either in the English or French literature of the time; those wishing to indicate a blade of this type resorting to such phrases as ' the blade broad from the hilt half way'. "

The lore is that the term is a French corruption of the name of John Phillip the Count von Konigsmark, a Swedish soldier of fortune in the service of Louis XIV, and a renowned duelist who is said to have created this blade. It was believed he originally had blades ground down in this manner and soon they were made in this form.

While the blades seem to have gone out of fashion rather at the same time as rapiers, in the time of George I, with civilian fashion, the colichemarde remained stubbornly with the military. Aylward claims (p.38) "...nor is it proved that the colichemarde blade disappeared with any kind of abruptness, for in a series of swords with these type of blade it will be seen that the change to even taper was made very gradually, the edges of the forte converging more and more until at last the shoulder vanishes altogether".

As blade width was reducing from about 1720s and colichemarde blades were still somewhat produced until c 1780s it is believed, perhaps this example is one of a transitional form as described above despite the shouldered form still known later in the century.

Roland_M · 23rd January 2017, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by batjka

Beautiful smallsword!

I have to disagree with your opinion of smallsword vs a rapier fight though. A rapier is a good bit longer, and is also double the weight. A light smallsword would have a really tough time parrying a rapier as it just doesn't have the mass. And any lunges by a small sword would not reach the intended target as the fighter would likely be impaled on the rapier's point. It is agreed by experts that a smallsword is only good to fight another smallsword. With other weapons, they are at a disadvantage.

Today where the time of duels is long gone it is difficult for us to make clear statements, how they were fighting in the real life.

After I had many old blades in my hand, I slowly begin to have a feeling for it.

The main advantage of the rapier is the length, ~13cm more is pretty much.
But we talk about a duel weapon and in this case the weight of the sword is of highest importance.

There are many videos on Youtube and nowadays they are trying very seriously the find out the old way of sword fighting. They more and more come to the same conclusions than in the Renaissance or Medieval.
The Rapier for example is a good and fair opponent for a one and half hand longsword of italian type (designed for thrusting).

But the duel rapier is slow and very exhausting because of its high weight of ~1kg. The rapier-duelist normally tries to make offensive and defensive moves together in one action (Youtube "Rapier vs Longsword").
The small sword duelist on the other hand got such a fast weapon, he can make offensive moves and defensive moves indepently from each other.

Fighting with a small sword is completely different to a rapier and at least twice as fast or faster. If you watch a rapier duel you can see every move clearly but with a small sword one needs the slow motion to see whats happend.

Regards,
Roland

satsujinken · 23rd January 2017, 10:31 AM

it's a colichemarde sword, halfway in evolution to rapier, with half of the blade still wide, to parry heavier sword

popular in 16-17 th century, if I'm not mistaken
congratulations

Donny

fernando · 27th January 2017, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland_M

Today where the time of duels is long gone it is difficult for us to make clear statements, how they were fighting in the real life...

Well said, Roland ...
Surely we are all aware that (school) fencing is one thing, (honor) dueling is another, and sword fighting in combat is way far different than those two, even if there aren't period video clips to demonstrate.
... From what i wonder whether fighting in combat depends, not so much in sword characteristics, but in the man (or woman) handling it. I fear that subtle differences in blade configurations are not so convincing as their effective brutality, so to say, notwithstading primary factors like weight and length but again, all those transcended by handlers not minding much about virtual modus operandi to hit their target. The Roman gladius was a short weapon, the Falcata Iberica was also rather short, yet it was narrated to be a vicious weapon.
All this to gain courage to say that the Colichemarde in its original configuration might be a fashionable fencing or dueling thing but not an actual combat resource in itself; maybe because i humbly find that its unestethical look is not compensated by being a combat resistent weapon.
But don't hit me, i am only the piano player

.
And by the way Roland, your example, be it transitional or not, has by far a more balanced appearance

Jim McDougall · 27th January 2017, 08:57 PM

Wayne, thank you for adding the picture of George Washington's sword that I mentioned, pretty interesting example.

Actually fencing has been described as a 'science', where dueling has been described as anything from a passion to an obsession, in these times. It seems that the sword in combat is quite a different thing, as the dynamics there are profoundly dynamic to say the least.

I recall an anecdote pertaining to a cavalry action in the Crimea during that war, where a British cavalryman was 'annoyed' because a Russian horseman had responded 'out of sequence' to his strike , giving him a cut so and so and knocked him off his horse.

Fencing, and in its ultimate theater, the duel of honor, is a most systemic and carefully gauged arrangement, where the features of the weapons are key in their performance in accord with techniques practiced.
Combat is an explosive and volatile interaction where no such rules or strategies can be expected to be followed, as shown in the anecdote above and how out of place it was.

22nd January 2017, 03:29 AM	#1
batjka Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 39	Beautiful smallsword! I have to disagree with your opinion of smallsword vs a rapier fight though. A rapier is a good bit longer, and is also double the weight. A light smallsword would have a really tough time parrying a rapier as it just doesn't have the mass. And any lunges by a small sword would not reach the intended target as the fighter would likely be impaled on the rapier's point. It is agreed by experts that a smallsword is only good to fight another smallsword. With other weapons, they are at a disadvantage.

22nd January 2017, 04:39 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,194	The 'colichemarde' is a blade which evolved in the 17th c. in a transitional sense from rapiers of the time, and was in effect with a heavier extended forte blade which dramatically reduced to a narrower thrusting blade. The idea was actually for a faster blade which could parry the rapier. As noted, the weight of the sword has the weight in the hand, and the point can be maneuvered with extreme rapidity. (Aylward, 1945, p.37). In "The Smallsword in England", Aylward, p.36, regarding the colichemarde blade of the developing smallsword appearing about 1675, the author notes, "...one is always reluctant to cast doubt upon a picturesque legend, but it must be confessed that it has not been possible to trace the use of the word colichemarde either in the English or French literature of the time; those wishing to indicate a blade of this type resorting to such phrases as ' the blade broad from the hilt half way'. " The lore is that the term is a French corruption of the name of John Phillip the Count von Konigsmark, a Swedish soldier of fortune in the service of Louis XIV, and a renowned duelist who is said to have created this blade. It was believed he originally had blades ground down in this manner and soon they were made in this form. While the blades seem to have gone out of fashion rather at the same time as rapiers, in the time of George I, with civilian fashion, the colichemarde remained stubbornly with the military. Aylward claims (p.38) "...nor is it proved that the colichemarde blade disappeared with any kind of abruptness, for in a series of swords with these type of blade it will be seen that the change to even taper was made very gradually, the edges of the forte converging more and more until at last the shoulder vanishes altogether". As blade width was reducing from about 1720s and colichemarde blades were still somewhat produced until c 1780s it is believed, perhaps this example is one of a transitional form as described above despite the shouldered form still known later in the century.

23rd January 2017, 10:31 AM	#4
satsujinken Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Surabaya - Indonesia Posts: 199	it's a colichemarde sword, halfway in evolution to rapier, with half of the blade still wide, to parry heavier sword popular in 16-17 th century, if I'm not mistaken congratulations Donny

27th January 2017, 08:57 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,194	Wayne, thank you for adding the picture of George Washington's sword that I mentioned, pretty interesting example. Actually fencing has been described as a 'science', where dueling has been described as anything from a passion to an obsession, in these times. It seems that the sword in combat is quite a different thing, as the dynamics there are profoundly dynamic to say the least. I recall an anecdote pertaining to a cavalry action in the Crimea during that war, where a British cavalryman was 'annoyed' because a Russian horseman had responded 'out of sequence' to his strike , giving him a cut so and so and knocked him off his horse. Fencing, and in its ultimate theater, the duel of honor, is a most systemic and carefully gauged arrangement, where the features of the weapons are key in their performance in accord with techniques practiced. Combat is an explosive and volatile interaction where no such rules or strategies can be expected to be followed, as shown in the anecdote above and how out of place it was.