18th Miquelet Lock Musket, Catalonian Maker Info Needed

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by Fernando K

Hello dana

Yes, exactly. The stock does not extend to the mouth, the drumstick gets into where the stock ends and because it is a quality weapon. The hunting bayonet in iodine case, gets into the barrel

You will be translating the tickets for IOAN PRAT, but tomorrow

Greetings. Fernando K

Interesting. That is not a distinction I remember reading about. I've seen many smooth bore half stock long guns being called Muskets. The bore on this weapon is around .75" (19.05 mm). It closely resembles the diameter on a Brown Bess.

[Fernando K]

PRATS, Joan. "Master of works" (mason) of the second half of the 15th century. I worked with Bartollome Mas in the church of Pino de Barcelona

PRATS, Joan. Maestro plateero barcelones, from the 15th century - I finish his "pasantia" in 1579, presenting a ring. In his entrance in the books of the guild it is made record that he has to pass new examinations in 1593 and 1616

PRATS "Master stocmaker" of the 15th century, born in Barcelona. It is known to him City councilman for the consular year of 1644 - 1665

PRATS, Joan "Master of works" (mason) of the 16th century .. Together with Jose Rovira and helped by his son Jose, I built in 1670 the base of the high altar in the parish of Esparraguerra.

[Fernando K]

Francisco de GOYA

[fernando]

Originally Posted by dana_w

Interesting. That is not a distinction I remember reading about. I've seen many smooth bore half stock long guns being called Muskets ...

Distinction between either, in 'non technical' descriptions, doesn't often take place; yet such is a commonly accepted concept. Half stocked examples are usually hunting 'escopetas'; he term musket being more of a generic name, not so compromised with typology. Also surprising that, a gun of this quality would not have the lock maker name or mark well visible, once these are 'never' the same as cannon masters.

[fernando]

So ...

.

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by fernando

Distinction between either, in 'non technical' descriptions, doesn't often take place; yet such is a commonly accepted concept. Half stocked examples are usually hunting 'escopetas'; he term musket being more of a generic name, not so compromised with typology. Also surprising that, a gun of this quality would not have the lock maker name or mark well visible, once these are 'never' the same as cannon masters.

Thanks for the additional clarification fernando. I'll keep that in mind and mention this " commonly accepted concept" when I write the description.

Thanks so much for the scan of the marks too.

[dana_w]

It is a little hard to tell but the weapons in Francisco de GOYA's, Dogs on leash, look like they could be full stock. Here is a larger and clearer photo.

[Fernando K]

Hello dana

Yes, exactly. Also in the painting of GOYA, Carlos ii, hunter, has a shotgun with the complete stock, and at his waist you can see the hunting bayonet.

In the best picture of dogs hunting, you can also see the hunting bayonet.

Fernando k

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by Fernando K

Hello dana

Yes, exactly. Also in the painting of GOYA, Carlos ii, hunter, has a shotgun with the complete stock, and at his waist you can see the hunting bayonet.

In the best picture of dogs hunting, you can also see the hunting bayonet.

Fernando k

Interesting, I didn't realize plug bayonets were used for hunting. Thanks for pointing me to the image.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by dana_w

Interesting, I didn't realize plug bayonets were used for hunting. Thanks for pointing me to the image.

That's why we call them hunting bayonets (baioneta de caça over here and cuchillo de caza in Spain), as this was the original idea. You shoot a beast that often strikes back if is only hurt and you don't have time to reload your gun. The solution is plug the hunting bayonet and sustain its charge.

[fernando]

They are full stocked indeed.
Maybe this hunter fancied hunting with, not one but, a pair of muskets ... and two dogs leashed to each other with such short steel chain. All very unusual, don't you agree ?
Isn't this what we call over here artistic freedom ?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by dana_w

...I'll keep that in mind and mention this " commonly accepted concept" when I write the description...

Another approach is, you may see hunting escopetas with full stock, but you never see military muskets with half stock .

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by fernando

Another approach is, you may see hunting escopetas with full stock, but you never see military muskets with half stock .

Never? Are you sure about that fernando?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by dana_w

Never? Are you sure about that fernando?

Well, i am looking at dozens of military examples shown by Barceló Rubi and Calvó Pascual and only three late short 'tercerolas' are half stocked. All carbines, musketoons and fusils are fully stocked.
You may conclude by yourself .

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by fernando

Well, i am looking at dozens of military examples shown by Barceló Rubi and Calvó Pascual and only three late short 'tercerolas' are half stocked. All carbines, musketoons and fusils are fully stocked.
You may conclude by yourself .

I've learned not to use the term "never"