Small Sword with long triangular blade

Roland_M · 19th January 2017, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

very nice small sword, if I remember correctly, I had this particular small sword in my collection and I have sold via ebay +- 15 years ago.

I remember how light it was as if it is made of aluminum.

the grip is not complete how it is now, there probably originally was a thin filigree/twisted threads or flat metal ribbon trims between the thicker wires.

best,
Jasper

Hello Jasper,

thank you for your comment, very interesting to hear, that this was your sword some years ago.
One side of the loose hand guard is in good condition, the other side is badly rusted and has a hole. Maybe this helps.

I also think, that some of the finer grip wires got lost.

But still a perfect duel sword.

Regards,
Roland

cornelistromp · 19th January 2017, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland_M

Hello Jasper,

thank you for your comment, very interesting to hear, that this was your sword some years ago.
One side of the loose hand guard is in good condition, the other side is badly rusted and has a hole. Maybe this helps.

I also think, that some of the finer grip wires got lost.

But still a perfect duel sword.

Regards,
Roland

yes that's the one, I remember a hole (or small restoration ?) there was also an oxidation spot with raw surface on the blade, if I remember well.

best,

Roland_M · 19th January 2017, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

yes that's the one, I remember a hole (or small restoration ?) there was also an oxidation spot with raw surface on the blade, if I remember well.

best,

Yes there was an oxidation spot on around 40% of the blade length. The spot is visible in the pictures. After some years of restoring experience I know how to remove such spots without much loss. Before my restoration the spot was black and at least twice as big.

Thank you very very much that you sold this awesome small sword indirectly to me!

best,
Roland

Sajen · 21st January 2017, 01:04 PM

Hi Roland,

since I've have had the privilege to handle your small sword I can say that the iron workmanship is outstanding.

And the light weight when you handle it is very impressive! Great catch!

Best,
Detlef

thinreadline · 21st January 2017, 03:56 PM

This type of blade is called a colichemarde blade I believe .

fernando · 21st January 2017, 04:51 PM

Maybe not the same ... i guess

.

.

batjka · 22nd January 2017, 03:29 AM

Beautiful smallsword!

I have to disagree with your opinion of smallsword vs a rapier fight though. A rapier is a good bit longer, and is also double the weight. A light smallsword would have a really tough time parrying a rapier as it just doesn't have the mass. And any lunges by a small sword would not reach the intended target as the fighter would likely be impaled on the rapier's point. It is agreed by experts that a smallsword is only good to fight another smallsword. With other weapons, they are at a disadvantage.

Roland_M · 23rd January 2017, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinreadline

This type of blade is called a colichemarde blade I believe .

I also believe it is a Colichemarde type but the blade is multiple bended exactly in the quite long transition area. So it is not 100% clear.

This might be a very interesting conclusion: the transition area is obviously the weakest point of a Colichemarde blade.

Another theory about the Colichemarde type from me is that it is lighter than later triangular blades with a nearly round base and maybe the ergonomics are slightly better.

Roland

Jim McDougall · 27th January 2017, 03:44 AM

In reading the 1885 work of the fencing master Egerton Castle, "Schools and Masters of Fence", I found some interesting passages which might support the period for this type blade of first quarter to mid 18th c. :

...the characteristic of the colichemarde blade is the very great breadth of the fort, as compared with that of the faible. The change is very abrupt; the blade, which is stiff and broad in the portion nearer the hilt, suddenly becoming excessively slender about the region of the half weak.
The pronounced difference facilitated the rapid management of the point to an extraordinary extent, without weakening the sword at the forte, from which all parries are made; so that practically the blade remained strong as ever. This form of blade was eminently favorable to methodical fencing, and this is one of the rare instances in which the form of the weapon was not the result of the development of the theory, but one in which the invention of a new shape ultimately altered the whole system.

Soon after its coming into general use we begin to hear of the free use of the 'cut over the point', of multiple feints, and what especially constituted te essence of small sword or French fencing, in contradistinction to rapier play, namely circular parries (contra-degagements) in the four lines.

This highly perfect form of blade was used between the years 1685 and 1720, and then seems very suddenly to have gone out of fashion, being REPLACED AGAIN BY ONE WHICH TAPERED VERY UNIFORMLY FROM THE BASE TO THE POINT.

But the advantages of an exceedingly light point were too important to be neglected, and accordingly the WHOLE blade was made very slender".

( Egerton Castle- pp.239-240. )

It would seem that this 'triangular' blade may well be indeed transitional as described above, but well apart from the rapier. The civilian examples more strictly following fashion likely took the gradual taper shape (triangular) in order to retain the heavier forte. At some point the blade became entirely slender, probably by about 1730.

Meanwhile as I noted earlier, the military, always stubbornly adhering to tradition still maintained the earlier blade shape, as evidenced by examples as late as 1780, George Washington having one of them.

I believe this example to be of 1720-40 period based on these notes .

21st January 2017, 04:51 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Maybe not the same ... i guess . . Attached Images

21st January 2017, 01:04 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,213	Hi Roland, since I've have had the privilege to handle your small sword I can say that the iron workmanship is outstanding. And the light weight when you handle it is very impressive! Great catch! Best, Detlef

21st January 2017, 03:56 PM	#5
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	This type of blade is called a colichemarde blade I believe .

22nd January 2017, 03:29 AM	#7
batjka Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 39	Beautiful smallsword! I have to disagree with your opinion of smallsword vs a rapier fight though. A rapier is a good bit longer, and is also double the weight. A light smallsword would have a really tough time parrying a rapier as it just doesn't have the mass. And any lunges by a small sword would not reach the intended target as the fighter would likely be impaled on the rapier's point. It is agreed by experts that a smallsword is only good to fight another smallsword. With other weapons, they are at a disadvantage.

27th January 2017, 03:44 AM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,284	In reading the 1885 work of the fencing master Egerton Castle, "Schools and Masters of Fence", I found some interesting passages which might support the period for this type blade of first quarter to mid 18th c. : ...the characteristic of the colichemarde blade is the very great breadth of the fort, as compared with that of the faible. The change is very abrupt; the blade, which is stiff and broad in the portion nearer the hilt, suddenly becoming excessively slender about the region of the half weak. The pronounced difference facilitated the rapid management of the point to an extraordinary extent, without weakening the sword at the forte, from which all parries are made; so that practically the blade remained strong as ever. This form of blade was eminently favorable to methodical fencing, and this is one of the rare instances in which the form of the weapon was not the result of the development of the theory, but one in which the invention of a new shape ultimately altered the whole system. Soon after its coming into general use we begin to hear of the free use of the 'cut over the point', of multiple feints, and what especially constituted te essence of small sword or French fencing, in contradistinction to rapier play, namely circular parries (contra-degagements) in the four lines. This highly perfect form of blade was used between the years 1685 and 1720, and then seems very suddenly to have gone out of fashion, being REPLACED AGAIN BY ONE WHICH TAPERED VERY UNIFORMLY FROM THE BASE TO THE POINT. But the advantages of an exceedingly light point were too important to be neglected, and accordingly the WHOLE blade was made very slender". ( Egerton Castle- pp.239-240. ) It would seem that this 'triangular' blade may well be indeed transitional as described above, but well apart from the rapier. The civilian examples more strictly following fashion likely took the gradual taper shape (triangular) in order to retain the heavier forte. At some point the blade became entirely slender, probably by about 1730. Meanwhile as I noted earlier, the military, always stubbornly adhering to tradition still maintained the earlier blade shape, as evidenced by examples as late as 1780, George Washington having one of them. I believe this example to be of 1720-40 period based on these notes .