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Old 18th December 2016, 03:07 PM   #1
Kubur
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Default new pistol

Hi Guys
Here is the animal.
Most probably North Africa, Morrocan or Algerian coasts
Best
Kubur
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Old 18th December 2016, 05:02 PM   #2
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Hi Kubur.

This one, may possibly be my favorite from all your pistol posts here. Yes, I agree with the Moroccan or Algerian coasts. I'm leaning a bit more towards Algerian. Notice the miquelet lock styled in early Spanish style. Congratulations. A most impressive pistol that appears in super condition. Please post additional pics as time permits. Including the lock and pan area. Thanks.

Rick
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Old 19th December 2016, 09:42 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
Hi Guys
Here is the animal.
Most probably North Africa, Morrocan or Algerian coasts
Best
Kubur

HI KUBUR,WOW WOW WOW
AGREE WITH RICK ,MY BET IS ALGERIA,VERY CLASSY AND IN GREAT CONDITION
A PIECE OF ART
I WORKED A 13 HOUR SHIFT,BUT WHEN I SEE THIS BEAUTY I FELT REJEVUNATED,MERCY BEACOUP FOR POSTING
REGARDS RAJESH
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Old 19th December 2016, 04:21 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickystl
Hi Kubur.
This one, may possibly be my favorite from all your pistol posts here.
Rick


Hi Rick,
You say that everytime
I will do more photos.
Best,
Kubur
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Old 19th December 2016, 04:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANDOOK
HI KUBUR,WOW WOW WOW
AGREE WITH RICK ,MY BET IS ALGERIA,VERY CLASSY AND IN GREAT CONDITION
A PIECE OF ART
I WORKED A 13 HOUR SHIFT,BUT WHEN I SEE THIS BEAUTY I FELT REJEVUNATED,MERCY BEACOUP FOR POSTING
REGARDS RAJESH


Thank you Rajesh
I agree for the coral but the silver and metal work are very Moroccan.
Best wishes,
Kubur
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Old 20th December 2016, 01:17 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
Hi Rick,
You say that everytime
I will do more photos.
Best,
Kubur

Hi Kubur.

LOL. Yes, sometimes I tend to get carried away a bit. LOL Looking forward to the additional photos. Really nice piece.

Rick
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Old 4th January 2017, 05:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickystl
Hi Kubur.

LOL. Yes, sometimes I tend to get carried away a bit. LOL Looking forward to the additional photos. Really nice piece.

Rick


As requested
Best wishes
Kubur
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Old 4th January 2017, 07:18 PM   #8
Fernando K
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Hello
Several things call my attention. First, the knob and the piece that holds the barrel in its front, appear to be fused, instead of being chiseled. Second in the lock.La bowl is barely insinuated, the scratch of the frizeen is just muffled and the strangest, the shot block is round, not a flat blade.

Affectionately. Fernando K
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Old 5th January 2017, 10:30 AM   #9
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Hello
I want to say that this is a piece for tourists, although the decor work is magnificent.
Affectionately. Fernando K
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Old 6th January 2017, 11:41 AM   #10
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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There is a pair of Algerian Pistols in The Queen Elizabeth 11 collection with coral and silver decoration for comparison and interest...as below...

Described as Quote" Flintlock pistol; octagonal/round steel barrel, chased with foliate scrolls, with two chased bands; wooden stock applied throughout with tear-shaped pieces of coral with engraved silver surrounds; silver mounts chased with foliate scrolls, pommel with bands of leaves, fluting, ropework.

Provenance;

Part of a set of guns and pistols given by the Dey of Algiers". Unquote.
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Old 7th January 2017, 03:34 PM   #11
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Hi Kubur.

WOW!! What a couple more close-up photos will produce.

Unfortunatly, I must agree with Fernando K. This appears to be a Tourist piece. You will probably find that both the lock and barrel are castings versus forgings. If you took the barrel off you will probably find there is no seperate breech plug. It is the most nicely decorated Tourist piece I have ever seen.

That said, I still wish I owned this piece. That it is a Tourist piece would be all the excuse I need to convert it into a shooting gun with a new barrel and utilizing one of my spare miquelet locks out of my collection. LOL I really like the stock decoration on this one.

Rick
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Old 7th January 2017, 03:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi
There is a pair of Algerian Pistols in The Queen Elizabeth 11 collection with coral and silver decoration for comparison and interest...as below...

Described as Quote" Flintlock pistol; octagonal/round steel barrel, chased with foliate scrolls, with two chased bands; wooden stock applied throughout with tear-shaped pieces of coral with engraved silver surrounds; silver mounts chased with foliate scrolls, pommel with bands of leaves, fluting, ropework.

Provenance;

Part of a set of guns and pistols given by the Dey of Algiers". Unquote.

Hi Ibrahiim.

What a beautiful pair of pistols. Note the front of the ramrods being partially wraped in thin sheet silver (and sometimes brass). A trademark of Algerian built guns. You also see this done with the ramrods of the long guns.

Rick
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Old 10th January 2017, 02:12 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernando K
Hello
Several things call my attention. First, the knob and the piece that holds the barrel in its front, appear to be fused, instead of being chiseled. Second in the lock.La bowl is barely insinuated, the scratch of the frizeen is just muffled and the strangest, the shot block is round, not a flat blade.

Affectionately. Fernando K


Dear Fernando,
You are right. I looked at the barrel nicely engraved with copper wire.
Unfortunately the thickness of the barrel is not the same at the muzzle and the light is not even drilled throught the barrel. For the lock it's true that the frizzen looks cast. Nevertheless it's a very good lock nothing compare to what you call tourist pistols.
Please look at my thread called
Fake pistols with real locks, real pistols with fake locks
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...moroccan+pistol
Look also at
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20541
The first and the last Moroccan muskets belong to the same category,
old guns made in the late 19th and very early 20th (before 1918).
To be simplier and more clear we have at least two categories of guns here.
The very early tourist pistols if you like, but i prefer to say decorative as their quality is comparable to old ones (around 1880 to 1920) and the tourist guns from 1930 to our days.
I noticed two workshops where they produced this early type of guns, one in Morocco and one in Istanbul. I will post Turkish examples one day. One feature of these workshops is the use of old spare parts. Sometimes it's difficult to distinguish the recent from the old even for specialists...
Best,
Kubur
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Old 10th January 2017, 02:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickystl
Hi Kubur.

WOW!! What a couple more close-up photos will produce.
It is the most nicely decorated Tourist piece I have ever seen.
That said, I still wish I owned this piece. That it is a Tourist piece would be all the excuse I need to convert it into a shooting gun with a new barrel and utilizing one of my spare miquelet locks out of my collection. LOL I really like the stock decoration on this one.

Rick


Hi Rick,
I sent to Fernando detailled explanations and he is right of course.
That is said but what is very disturbing is the fact that this pistol is even better in 'real' than on photographs. The decoration, the weight balance, the size, it's a nice piece so it would be difficult for me to leave it.
Please, look at this Algerian Moukala made in 1918 (the date in Gregoran calendar is engraved on the stock)...not mine unfortunately...

Best,
Kubur
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Old 13th January 2017, 04:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
Hi Rick,
I sent to Fernando detailled explanations and he is right of course.
That is said but what is very disturbing is the fact that this pistol is even better in 'real' than on photographs. The decoration, the weight balance, the size, it's a nice piece so it would be difficult for me to leave it.
Please, look at this Algerian Moukala made in 1918 (the date in Gregoran calendar is engraved on the stock)...not mine unfortunately...

Best,
Kubur

Hi Kubur.

Well, I had to try. LOL

That Moukala is dated very late. The lock and barrel may be older and re-used to build this one. The barrel seems a bit shorter than most, but could be original.

Rick.
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Old 14th January 2017, 11:00 AM   #16
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Default A COUSIN OF YOUR PISTOL

HI KUBUR
THIS BELONGS TO A FRIEND WHO LIVES IN FRANCE,WAS FOR SALE SOMETIME BACK
MOROCCON OR ALGERIAN,LOVELY PISTOL
REGARDS RAJESH
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Old 14th January 2017, 02:26 PM   #17
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Hi

I do not know why Argentina is said. I live in Argentina, and I assure you that in my country there was no factory or artisan capable of producing this pistol.

It is a European pistol, perhaps Belgian, to which the wooden hilt was changed or used to decorate the Marquis estillo.

I think it's a tourist piece.

Affectionately. Fernando K
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Old 14th January 2017, 05:12 PM   #18
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Hi

Now I notice that the lid is held, not by a screw, but by a nail, in the upper part. I can not see what happens at the bottom, but I feel the same

Affectionately. Fernando K
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Old 15th January 2017, 04:50 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANDOOK
HI KUBUR
THIS BELONGS TO A FRIEND WHO LIVES IN FRANCE,WAS FOR SALE SOMETIME BACK
MOROCCON OR ALGERIAN,LOVELY PISTOL
REGARDS RAJESH


Hi Rajesh,
Yes you are right, it's the same style and probably the same workshop.
A very nice little pocket pistol.
Best wishes
Kubur
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Old 15th January 2017, 06:02 AM   #20
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TNX FOR YOUR REPLY KUBUR,CHEERS MERCIE
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Old 15th January 2017, 09:26 AM   #21
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The origin of this double barrel pistol is a mass made German so called "Weinbergpistole" used in the vinyards to disturb birds. These pistols have been in production up to the 1930s and in German warehouse catalogues they had a price of 1.-Reichsmark. There have been pistols with round or edged barrels but always of very primitiv or simple make.
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Old 15th January 2017, 05:03 PM   #22
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While it is never pleasant to learn that a treasured piece is a copy, one as good as Kubur's is worthy of some analysis:

The buttcap and barrel band appear to be cast. I am aware of very few types of period Moroccan work which include this technique.

The wood is very smooth and appears to lack patina.

The engraving on the lock and barrel tang applique` are quite crisp and show no wear. The wire inlay combined with coral and turquoise inlay likewise show little wear.

The work on the barrel does not appear to be inlay; rather, it is copper or brass which has been melted into the engraved lines and polished flat to the surface. This technique is very common these days.

Most interestingly, however, is the fact that the copyist found a good, complete example on which to base his work, probably in a museum or perhaps even in a book. He has not varied much at all from the original form, and the quality of workmanship is quite good overall.

Modern work is most easily identified by the absence of original form; it displays varying degrees of "artistic invention," most of which is comically poor. Regretably, the trend spans the entire range of arms and armor.
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Old 17th September 2017, 05:29 PM   #23
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Guys
Confirmed as an early 20th c. Moroccan decorative pistol
but functionnal... in the style of the 18th - 19th c.
I found at least two other models very similar...
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