Kris with a repaired ganya?

[Green]

A couple more questions:

here's the other side of scabbard with mother of pearl (?) decoration (two pieces missing. Is this kind of scabbard typical of mid 20th century style and possibly original to the blade ?.

The top part of the scabbard did not have rattan(?) bindings. For a complete scabbard, does the binding continue up or this part is decorated in some other fashion?

[kai]

Hello Nik,

Why did you hide this from us?

Quite nice carving!

here's the other side of scabbard with mother of pearl (?) decoration (two pieces missing. Is this kind of scabbard typical of mid 20th century style and possibly original to the blade ?.

This scabbard type is 20th century but doesn't help much in narrowing things down for this kris, I guess.

The top part of the scabbard did not have rattan(?) bindings. For a complete scabbard, does the binding continue up or this part is decorated in some other fashion?

Judging from the patina of the wood, I'd guess that the rattan was covering it fully.

Regards,
Kai

[F. de Luzon]

Originally Posted by Green

A couple more questions:


.... The top part of the scabbard did not have rattan(?) bindings. For a complete scabbard, does the binding continue up or this part is decorated in some other fashion?

Hello! What's missing is a piece of cloth wrapped around the top of the sheath just below the crosspiece. I've been told that inside it is a piece of paper inscribed with holy verses. It is meant to serve as a talisman (anting-anting). Attached is an example from my collection showing a similar scabbard with the wrapping.

F de Luzon

[F. de Luzon]

The cloth also serves a practical purpose. It can protect your hand from injury.

The two sides of the scabbard are made of thin pieces of wood, bound together by rattan/nito vine. Over time, the rattan/nito becomes frail and can easily break when the sword is drawn. I've heard of several cases of palms and fingers being cut by the blade as a result of the forceful removal of the sword from this kind of scabbard. This can happen when the blade becomes rusty and difficult to draw out. Always exercise caution especially if the sword fits tightly in the scabbard.

The cloth is wrapped several times around the sheath. It is thus thicker than the rattan/nito. Your hand will be safer holding the scabbard by the cloth when drawing the sword rather than by the rattan/nito. That is on the assumption that the cloth is strong, bound thickly and tight.

Again, always exercise extra caution when drawing the sword from this kind of scabbard.

Here are some more examples for your reference.

[Spunjer]

Hello Nik,
here's another pretty recent kalis you can compare yours with:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=kalis

[Green]

Ron; Thanks for the link.

F de Luzon;

Good idea about wraping up with cloth on the top part of the scabbard where the rattan bainding is now missing. But I believe the scabbard has the rattan all the way up to the cross piece originally.

I have people here that do rattan works (for chairs and such) who can easily put new rattan binding at this missing part - although I'm very sure they can not replicate the original exactly. The original looks v brittle now and was protected by previous owner with transparent tape which is peeling off now. I'm not sure if I should do this (new rattan binding for missing part) or just use cloth binding which is a lot easier or leave the thing as it is.

****

I recieved the kris last week (see pics with purplish mat background). The cross piece decoration is very similar to some barongs. I did a little bit of amateurish cleaning with vineger (see pics with red background) . The blade showed 'pamor' and laminated(?). Is this usual for Kris? the okir look quite nice to me.

[F. de Luzon]

Originally Posted by Green

Ron; Thanks for the link.

F de Luzon;

Good idea about wraping up with cloth on the top part of the scabbard where the rattan bainding is now missing. But I believe the scabbard has the rattan all the way up to the cross piece originally.

I have people here that do rattan works (for chairs and such) who can easily put new rattan binding at this missing part - although I'm very sure they can not replicate the original exactly. The original looks v brittle now and was protected by previous owner with transparent tape which is peeling off now. I'm not sure if I should do this (new rattan binding for missing part) or just use cloth binding which is a lot easier or leave the thing as it is.
.

Hi Green,

Be very careful when drawing the kris from the scabbard if the binding is brittle. I've heard of several accidents when this type of scabbard splits.

F. de Luzon

[David]

That cleaned up nicely Green. What your post-cleaned kris shows is indeed lamination, not pamor. Have you determined if the fittings are aluminum or some other kind of white metal. They look less like aluminum in the after cleaned photos. If they are not aluminum i'd say it is more likely the kris is a little older than i first thought, perhaps around WWII era. Shame about the missing MOP. It would be nice to replace them, but it would be difficult to match the designed pieces properly.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Green

Good idea about wraping up with cloth on the top part of the scabbard where the rattan bainding is now missing. But I believe the scabbard has the rattan all the way up to the cross piece originally.

I have people here that do rattan works (for chairs and such) who can easily put new rattan binding at this missing part - although I'm very sure they can not replicate the original exactly. The original looks v brittle now and was protected by previous owner with transparent tape which is peeling off now. I'm not sure if I should do this (new rattan binding for missing part) or just use cloth binding which is a lot easier or leave the thing as it is.

****

I recieved the kris last week (see pics with purplish mat background). The cross piece decoration is very similar to some barongs. I did a little bit of amateurish cleaning with vineger (see pics with red background) . The blade showed 'pamor' and laminated(?). Is this usual for Kris? the okir look quite nice to me.

Nice later kris with very nice lamination and a good cleaning/staining job you have done.
Here you can see my example with integral gangya: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=kris

You can see also that F. de Luzon is correct by the cloth wrapping in up from the scabbard.

Regards,
Detlef

[Ian]

de Luzon:

Are these all yours? Or might they come from a certain shop in Ermita owned by Mr. Ven?

Ian.

Originally Posted by F. de Luzon

The cloth also serves a practical purpose. It can protect your hand from injury.

The two sides of the scabbard are made of thin pieces of wood, bound together by rattan/nito vine. Over time, the rattan/nito becomes frail and can easily break when the sword is drawn. I've heard of several cases of palms and fingers being cut by the blade as a result of the forceful removal of the sword from this kind of scabbard. This can happen when the blade becomes rusty and difficult to draw out. Always exercise caution especially if the sword fits tightly in the scabbard.

The cloth is wrapped several times around the sheath. It is thus thicker than the rattan/nito. Your hand will be safer holding the scabbard by the cloth when drawing the sword rather than by the rattan/nito. That is on the assumption that the cloth is strong, bound thickly and tight.

Again, always exercise extra caution when drawing the sword from this kind of scabbard.

Here are some more examples for your reference.

[F. de Luzon]

Originally Posted by Ian

de Luzon:

Are these all yours? Or might they come from a certain shop in Ermita owned by Mr. Ven?

Ian.

Hello Ian, Only the one in the first photograph is mine. The second picture shows krises on display at that particular shop. I did not provide attribution to avoid violating forum rules.

F. de Luzon

[milandro]

Originally Posted by Green

A couple more questions:

here's the other side of scabbard with mother of pearl (?) decoration (two pieces missing. Is this kind of scabbard typical of mid 20th century style and possibly original to the blade ?.

The top part of the scabbard did not have rattan(?) bindings. For a complete scabbard, does the binding continue up or this part is decorated in some other fashion?

I have had some thought about this type of kris since I too owned, briefly one with a similar warangka and hilt.

It seemed to me these were made in a left hand construction.

[David]

Originally Posted by milandro

I have had some thought about this type of kris since I too owned, briefly one with a similar warangka and hilt.

It seemed to me these were made in a left hand construction.

I believe that might depend entirely upon how the kris is oriented on the body and how it is drawn from the sheath.
Note that in these three cases at least the sheath is oriented in the stash with the front edge of the blade facing upward.
Drawing the blade in this manner has the advantage of placing the blade in a downward striking from a single motion as the blade is removed from the sheath.

[milandro]

could be, however, in both cases where the people have their weapon in they hands the pommel would certainly interfere with their wrist if they were to point down the kris even slightly. You can see for example the with the octagonal horse hoof pommel the person drawing it in that position has to do so by positioning the wrist in the inside , once drawn though even simply in the horizontal position the hoof would hit the wrist.

[kai]

Hello André,

could be, however, in both cases where the people have their weapon in they hands the pommel would certainly interfere with their wrist if they were to point down the kris even slightly. You can see for example the with the octagonal horse hoof pommel the person drawing it in that position has to do so by positioning the wrist in the inside , once drawn though even simply in the horizontal position the hoof would hit the wrist.

Note that this just the initial stage of drawing (and staged at that) - the final grip will be different.

There also is a reason why jungayan pommels are not preferred for actual fighting (they do but more simple hilts will perform more easily).

And a lot of fighting styles don't rely heavily on extended wrists...

Regards,
Kai