Maximilian close helmetfor ID

CSinTX · 3rd January 2017, 03:03 PM

My knowledge of armor is limited but I am intrigued by the pattern of marks all over this helmet. Was this normal for this style? What would be their purpose or origin?

fernando · 3rd January 2017, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSinTX

My knowledge of armor is limited but I am intrigued by the pattern of marks all over this helmet. Was this normal for this style? What would be their purpose or origin?

I am certain that Marcus has made a safe deal and this is not a well built late reproduction, given the price such genuine helmets may cost. Say Marcus, hasn't the seller given you evidence of its authencity ?

CSinTX · 3rd January 2017, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

and this is not a well built late reproduction,

Could it be an earlier reproduction? Maybe 19th C? I don't really know, I just found the pattern of the marks interesting.

Marcus den toom · 3rd January 2017, 07:38 PM

It has come to my attention that some people question my original post about the age. As to its provenance, i do not know i bought it at auction without further information other than there assumption it is 19th century.
Some other members told me they know for sure it can't be original, others claim it is.
All i wanted was to verify my own interpretation which differs from auctions most of the time... and i hope that most of you can agree here that auctions don't know everything if anything at all especially about such items as this close helmet.

Please make this a real discussion and not something behind the curtains, because if that is the way things need to go, i am out!

No than, here are some original pieces of armour (as far as i know) with similar markings.

Marcus den toom · 3rd January 2017, 07:42 PM

ps Batjka, Yes i tried it on, but my head is to big.. sadly

The liner would have been something like this is suppose.

Marcus den toom · 3rd January 2017, 07:49 PM

I specifically looked at tournament armour (stegzeuge) because of the probability of damages.
If anyone has other period armour with damages, please post these. This would be very enlightening.

Jim McDougall · 3rd January 2017, 09:42 PM

Marcus, thank you for noting the concerns and comments present outside the discussion here, and I agree, it is best to focus on helmets of this style and original character in examining your example.

There are apparently quite a number of reproduction helms out there available mostly for re enactment and decoration, however these would seem immediately obvious. We must admit that the price realized in this case is incredibly low for an authentic example of this desirable style, so immediately begs the question if is or not.
We always hope to find a 'sleeper' in estate sale or auction, however this is highly unlikely for a specialist auctioneer.

Since here we strive to learn from historic examples, it might have been important to include the description from the source of the example as the discussion would direct to its features and character in compliance with other examples known authentic. If the 19th century description is noted, we should move to prove otherwise.

Thank you for 'staying in' by presenting other examples, and I look forward to others and observations on the elements and fixtures......really want to learn more on these.
No matter what....its quite an attractive helmet!

3rd January 2017, 03:03 PM	#1
CSinTX Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 233	My knowledge of armor is limited but I am intrigued by the pattern of marks all over this helmet. Was this normal for this style? What would be their purpose or origin? Attached Images

3rd January 2017, 07:38 PM	#4
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 535	It has come to my attention that some people question my original post about the age. As to its provenance, i do not know i bought it at auction without further information other than there assumption it is 19th century. Some other members told me they know for sure it can't be original, others claim it is. All i wanted was to verify my own interpretation which differs from auctions most of the time... and i hope that most of you can agree here that auctions don't know everything if anything at all especially about such items as this close helmet. Please make this a real discussion and not something behind the curtains, because if that is the way things need to go, i am out! No than, here are some original pieces of armour (as far as i know) with similar markings. Attached Images

3rd January 2017, 07:42 PM	#5
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 535	ps Batjka, Yes i tried it on, but my head is to big.. sadly The liner would have been something like this is suppose. Attached Images

3rd January 2017, 07:49 PM	#6
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 535	I specifically looked at tournament armour (stegzeuge) because of the probability of damages. If anyone has other period armour with damages, please post these. This would be very enlightening. Attached Images

3rd January 2017, 09:42 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	Marcus, thank you for noting the concerns and comments present outside the discussion here, and I agree, it is best to focus on helmets of this style and original character in examining your example. There are apparently quite a number of reproduction helms out there available mostly for re enactment and decoration, however these would seem immediately obvious. We must admit that the price realized in this case is incredibly low for an authentic example of this desirable style, so immediately begs the question if is or not. We always hope to find a 'sleeper' in estate sale or auction, however this is highly unlikely for a specialist auctioneer. Since here we strive to learn from historic examples, it might have been important to include the description from the source of the example as the discussion would direct to its features and character in compliance with other examples known authentic. If the 19th century description is noted, we should move to prove otherwise. Thank you for 'staying in' by presenting other examples, and I look forward to others and observations on the elements and fixtures......really want to learn more on these. No matter what....its quite an attractive helmet!