Show us your Talismanic markings on keris blades

A. G. Maisey · 30th December 2016, 08:05 PM

Green, pics will not be of any use to me, I need the thing in my hand, and a 3X loupe in my eye.

Jean, to you these marks may be something to be investigated, analysed, given careful thought, and then a decision made. To me they are as clear as reading a sentence that I have already read many, many times. I've even been guilty of writing that sentence once, when I was about 13 or 14 years old. These marks were made by the blade being clamped into a holding device. That device is usually a bench vice, but some hand tools do leave a similar imprint.

Gustav · 30th December 2016, 09:02 PM

Yes, we see them quite often on Malayan Keris.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=vice+marks

The magic of modernisation.

Green · 31st December 2016, 03:34 AM

Gustav,

Many thanks for the link! getting to understand it a bit better ( i think)...

Jean · 31st December 2016, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Yes, we see them quite often on Malayan Keris.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=vice+marks

The magic of modernisation.

Thank you Gustav, it was an interesting discussion!

Jean · 3rd March 2017, 07:51 PM

I own this old Batak chopping knife, the strong blade has one cutting edge and a convex section, and it shows irregular crisscross lines on a significant part of the surface. By close examination it seems that the entire surface was initially crisscrossed but it was polished towards the edge probably for maintaining the sharp cutting edge.
These lines were clearly incised for any reason and not imprinted by a vice or other clamping tool.
Regards

drdavid · 3rd March 2017, 08:17 PM

Jean, what are the dimensions on this piece. I have previously owned a couple of knives that had been made from old files. They still had a little cross hatching visible over a fair amount of the blade
Drd

Rick · 3rd March 2017, 08:56 PM

It looks like it's made from an old wood rasp to me.

One flat side; one convex side.
Seems like the cross section of a rasp flattened out.

David · 4th March 2017, 12:48 AM

I'm afraid i am in agreement with both Rick and DrDavid. It appears that you blade was made from a file. I've seen many in my day and the result looks very much like this. Even if this were not the case though, i wouldn't image that a pattern of lines like this would have any talismanic purpose. We often find markings on blades both decorative or practical that do not have any talismanic intent.

Gavin Nugent · 4th March 2017, 12:54 AM

I can see the confusion from who ever noted that the Tajong blade pattern is a talisman in nature. The markings on the tajong blade are to my eye are also that of a vice. The small knife shown later is certainly made from a file as indicated.

Such patterning on the Tajong is known in the Patani/North Malay regions but it does not start and end there. Below is an example from my personal collections that gives a partial indication of how it should look...I say partial as there is much more to these marks than what meets the eye in the image.

Gavin

Jean · 4th March 2017, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drdavid

Jean, what are the dimensions on this piece. I have previously owned a couple of knives that had been made from old files. They still had a little cross hatching visible over a fair amount of the blade
Drd

Hi Drdavid,
The blade is 17.2 cm long by 4.3 cm wide and 4.5 mm maximum thickness (6.8 x 1.7 x 0.18 inch). This appears too wide for a rasp or file (the piece would have been originally wider) and furthermore the crisscross lines near the tang are not parallel to those near the tip (more slanted) which would not be the case if the piece had been made from a rasp or file. There are also traces of crisscross lines on the flat (non-cutting) edge of the blade.
Regards

3rd March 2017, 07:51 PM	#5
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Crisscross lines on a Batak knife I own this old Batak chopping knife, the strong blade has one cutting edge and a convex section, and it shows irregular crisscross lines on a significant part of the surface. By close examination it seems that the entire surface was initially crisscrossed but it was polished towards the edge probably for maintaining the sharp cutting edge. These lines were clearly incised for any reason and not imprinted by a vice or other clamping tool. Regards Attached Images

4th March 2017, 12:54 AM	#9
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	I can see the confusion I can see the confusion from who ever noted that the Tajong blade pattern is a talisman in nature. The markings on the tajong blade are to my eye are also that of a vice. The small knife shown later is certainly made from a file as indicated. Such patterning on the Tajong is known in the Patani/North Malay regions but it does not start and end there. Below is an example from my personal collections that gives a partial indication of how it should look...I say partial as there is much more to these marks than what meets the eye in the image. Gavin Attached Images

30th December 2016, 08:05 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Green, pics will not be of any use to me, I need the thing in my hand, and a 3X loupe in my eye. Jean, to you these marks may be something to be investigated, analysed, given careful thought, and then a decision made. To me they are as clear as reading a sentence that I have already read many, many times. I've even been guilty of writing that sentence once, when I was about 13 or 14 years old. These marks were made by the blade being clamped into a holding device. That device is usually a bench vice, but some hand tools do leave a similar imprint.

30th December 2016, 09:02 PM	#2
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	Yes, we see them quite often on Malayan Keris. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=vice+marks The magic of modernisation.

31st December 2016, 03:34 AM	#3
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 323	Gustav, Many thanks for the link! getting to understand it a bit better ( i think)...

3rd March 2017, 08:17 PM	#6
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 372	Jean, what are the dimensions on this piece. I have previously owned a couple of knives that had been made from old files. They still had a little cross hatching visible over a fair amount of the blade Drd

3rd March 2017, 08:56 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	It looks like it's made from an old wood rasp to me. One flat side; one convex side. Seems like the cross section of a rasp flattened out.

4th March 2017, 12:48 AM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	I'm afraid i am in agreement with both Rick and DrDavid. It appears that you blade was made from a file. I've seen many in my day and the result looks very much like this. Even if this were not the case though, i wouldn't image that a pattern of lines like this would have any talismanic purpose. We often find markings on blades both decorative or practical that do not have any talismanic intent.