Kris

CCUAL · 29th December 2016, 01:08 AM

Can someone tell me which moro tribe this belongs to? based on the sheath and handle. thanks

Battara · 29th December 2016, 04:08 AM

I have seen this before. According to the silver mounts, baka-baka, front "mouth" of the ganga, etc, I would place this as Maguindanao. I will admit the wranga does look a little Sulu.

Do you now own this?

And great work on the other kris - really brought out the pattern!

CCUAL · 29th December 2016, 05:25 AM

[QUOTE=Battara]I have seen this before. According to the silver mounts, baka-baka, front "mouth" of the ganga, etc, I would place this as Maguindanao. I will admit the wranga does look a little Sulu.

Do you now own this?

Yes, I pick this up from ebay early this year. Thanks btw for clarifying the origin of this kris.

David · 29th December 2016, 05:40 AM

What is the material of the pommel on this one. The photos aren't very good, but it looks like fossilized elephant molar. Can we see some better shots of it?

CCUAL · 29th December 2016, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

What is the material of the pommel on this one. The photos aren't very good, but it looks like fossilized elephant molar. Can we see some better shots of it?

Hi David, according to the restoration person that did the sealing as the pommel material was falling apart when I rec'd it, it is made from carved elephant tooth. I will take close up photos when I get home.

Ian · 29th December 2016, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCUAL

Can someone tell me which moro tribe this belongs to? based on the sheath and handle. thanks

According to Cato, the sheath is Mindanao in origin, possibly Maranao. The hilt is harder to classify with its jute wrapping flanked by two encircling silver (?) sheet bands. There appears to be crenelation along the edge of the top band, a feature often found on Maranao hilts but by no means unique to that tribal group. The elephant tooth small kakatua pommel is unusual and not a characteristic finding for any of the major Moro groups.

Ian

Ian · 29th December 2016, 12:24 PM

Rarely do I disagree with Jose, but on this occasion I think he is mistaken in his attribution of the blade to the Maguindanao, at least if we are to believe Cato's classification.

Attached is a scan of Cato's Figure 39-42,* which I have labeled A,B,C,D: A = Sulu kris; B = Maranao; C = Maguindanao; and D = a "crossover" form. A picture of your kris (attached) shows the "elephant trunk" area is most consistent with the Maranao example (B) shown by Cato.

To quote Cato (p. 68):

The type that is distinctly Maranao begins with an elongated trunk [I think the tip of your trunk may have broken off]. The mouth cavity, while still present, is quite narrow, and the lower jaw runs parallel to the guard. While the Sulu, Maguindanao and "crossover" forms of the elephant's head/trunk motif display concave cavities beneath the lower jaw, the Maranao configuration does not.

Ian.

*Cato, R. Moro Swords. Graham Brash: Singapore, 1996, pp. 68-69.

Battara · 29th December 2016, 01:16 PM

Actually I was referring to the "tooth kris", the one with the fossil molar ivory.

On the one you are referencing, Ian, I agree.

Ian · 29th December 2016, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Actually I was referring to the "tooth kris", the one with the fossil molar ivory.

On the one you are referencing, Ian, I agree.

My apologies Jose. I thought you referred to the other one.

Battara · 29th December 2016, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

My apologies Jose. I thought you referred to the other one.

Oh no problem Ian. I like to learn.

You know, once I thought I made an error, but I found out that I was mistaken...

DaveS · 30th December 2016, 02:05 AM

Chris: Sorry, but we don't do Pasadena anymore, since they cut the show from three days to two. To much work for just two days. But we still do the Pomona Militaria Show in May. Hope to see you there...........Dave.

mross · 30th December 2016, 04:51 PM

Good eye, I think catches like this are the most fun.

CCUAL · 30th December 2016, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

Good eye, I think catches like this are the most fun.

You're very right, Mross. Ebay is still a good source from time to time, I caught 3 very nice twistcore krises this year alone, 2 were under hundred bucks, way below the of bidding war radar.

David · 30th December 2016, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCUAL

You're very right, Mross. Ebay is still a good source from time to time, I caught 3 very nice twistcore krises this year alone, 2 were under hundred bucks, way below the of bidding war radar.

I agree Chris, there are still sleepers to be found if you have a combination of a good eye and a good deal of luck.

29th December 2016, 01:08 AM	#1
CCUAL Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 76	Tooth Kris Can someone tell me which moro tribe this belongs to? based on the sheath and handle. thanks Attached Images

29th December 2016, 12:24 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,363	Rarely do I disagree with Jose, but on this occasion I think he is mistaken in his attribution of the blade to the Maguindanao, at least if we are to believe Cato's classification. Attached is a scan of Cato's Figure 39-42,* which I have labeled A,B,C,D: A = Sulu kris; B = Maranao; C = Maguindanao; and D = a "crossover" form. A picture of your kris (attached) shows the "elephant trunk" area is most consistent with the Maranao example (B) shown by Cato. To quote Cato (p. 68): The type that is distinctly Maranao begins with an elongated trunk [I think the tip of your trunk may have broken off]. The mouth cavity, while still present, is quite narrow, and the lower jaw runs parallel to the guard. While the Sulu, Maguindanao and "crossover" forms of the elephant's head/trunk motif display concave cavities beneath the lower jaw, the Maranao configuration does not. Ian. Cato, R. Moro Swords*. Graham Brash: Singapore, 1996, pp. 68-69. Attached Images

29th December 2016, 04:08 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	I have seen this before. According to the silver mounts, baka-baka, front "mouth" of the ganga, etc, I would place this as Maguindanao. I will admit the wranga does look a little Sulu. Do you now own this? And great work on the other kris - really brought out the pattern!

29th December 2016, 05:25 AM	#3
CCUAL Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 76	[QUOTE=Battara]I have seen this before. According to the silver mounts, baka-baka, front "mouth" of the ganga, etc, I would place this as Maguindanao. I will admit the wranga does look a little Sulu. Do you now own this? Yes, I pick this up from ebay early this year. Thanks btw for clarifying the origin of this kris.

29th December 2016, 05:40 AM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	What is the material of the pommel on this one. The photos aren't very good, but it looks like fossilized elephant molar. Can we see some better shots of it?

29th December 2016, 01:16 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Actually I was referring to the "tooth kris", the one with the fossil molar ivory. On the one you are referencing, Ian, I agree.

30th December 2016, 02:05 AM	#11
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Chris: Sorry, but we don't do Pasadena anymore, since they cut the show from three days to two. To much work for just two days. But we still do the Pomona Militaria Show in May. Hope to see you there...........Dave.

30th December 2016, 04:51 PM	#12
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Good eye, I think catches like this are the most fun.