Unknown Islamic Wootz? Sword

Norman McCormick · 18th December 2016, 06:40 PM

More Photos.

Kubur · 18th December 2016, 06:58 PM

Hi Norman,

It's easy, you have just to look at your own posts!

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=pala

It's an Austrian/Hungarian sword with very strong Ottoman influences.
Look also at the Magnate swords...

Kind regards,
Kubur

Norman McCormick · 18th December 2016, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Norman,

It's easy, you have just to look at your own posts!

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=pala

It's an Austrian/Hungarian sword with very strong Ottoman influences.
Look also at the Magnate swords...

Kind regards,
Kubur

Hi Kubur,
The similarities were not lost on me especially the three stars and crescent moon motif but I did not want to 'jump the gun' and wanted to wait for members ideas. I did look at Hungarian magnate swords but the fittings seemed a little plain but maybe not. Thanks as always for replying.
My Regards,
Norman.

Norman McCormick · 18th December 2016, 07:24 PM

Hi Kai,
The fittings are certainly not that recent as they are pretty dinged about, to my mind anyway, but this is out of my sphere of knowledge. If it is an Austro-Hungarian concoction then it probably won't be wootz. Thanks for replying.
My Regards,
Norman.

Battara · 18th December 2016, 11:36 PM

I too was thinking the region of Hungary.

mariusgmioc · 19th December 2016, 09:35 AM

Hello Norman,

The blade is clearly layered laminated and not wootz. And it appears to be acid etched, not chiseled/engraved.

As with respect to the geographical location, that may be very tricky as it lacks clearly defining characteristics allowing a certain geographical location. The blade may be Ottoman, but also Hungarian or Eastern European... I guess...

My guess is that it is not older than early 20th century.

But this is only my guess...

Regards,

Marius

PS: The scabbard fittings appear to be of ordinary white metal (like pewter). I am inclined to see this sword as a tourist souvenir, but that is my perception based on my own standards.

kai · 18th December 2016, 06:58 PM

Hello Norman,

the blade seems to be forged from laminated steel, not wootz.

The fittings look very recent to me...

Regards,
Kai

ALEX · 19th December 2016, 09:46 AM

I also agree the blade is laminated, not wootz. It is European blade, the acid etching could be historicism period to add Oriental(ism) flavor to it. I also agree with Kai, the fittings strike me as very new. Those who make them now almost always bang them with various objects to add appearance of age and use, but the work, shape and form are very recent.

Kubur · 19th December 2016, 05:18 PM

I think that they are all right.
I will bring the last nails. I found two swords quite similar quoted as
Polish Turkish Sword with European blade
and the other
Turkish Tatar sword with broad blade
The both have old Indian blades but the mounts and hilts are recent to me.
Could it be the same with an old Hungarian blade?

ALEX · 19th December 2016, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

...
Could it be the same with an old Hungarian blade?

Most certainly!

Norman McCormick · 20th December 2016, 11:59 AM

Hi Guys,
Thanks to all for your comments. It would appear to be an older blade in newer non historical clothes. Do you think it would be a worthwhile or indeed an interesting exercise to dismount the blade and remount in historical suitable fittings and if so what would you suggest? Thanks again for all the ideas and comments.
My Regards,
Norman.

mariusgmioc · 20th December 2016, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Guys,
Thanks to all for your comments. It would appear to be an older blade in newer non historical clothes. Do you think it would be a worthwhile or indeed an interesting exercise to dismount the blade and remount in historical suitable fittings and if so what would you suggest? Thanks again for all the ideas and comments.
My Regards,
Norman.

Hello Norman,

1. How did you conclude it is an older blade? Or better said: define "older."
2. Where do you expect to find perfectly matching "historical" fittings?
3. What do you expect to achive by having the blade remounted?

Regards,

Marius

18th December 2016, 06:40 PM	#1
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,618	More Photos. Attached Images

19th December 2016, 09:35 AM	#6
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	Hello Norman, The blade is clearly layered laminated and not wootz. And it appears to be acid etched, not chiseled/engraved. As with respect to the geographical location, that may be very tricky as it lacks clearly defining characteristics allowing a certain geographical location. The blade may be Ottoman, but also Hungarian or Eastern European... I guess... My guess is that it is not older than early 20th century. But this is only my guess... Regards, Marius PS: The scabbard fittings appear to be of ordinary white metal (like pewter). I am inclined to see this sword as a tourist souvenir, but that is my perception based on my own standards. Last edited by mariusgmioc; 19th December 2016 at 10:17 AM.

19th December 2016, 05:18 PM	#9
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	I think that they are all right. I will bring the last nails. I found two swords quite similar quoted as Polish Turkish Sword with European blade and the other Turkish Tatar sword with broad blade The both have old Indian blades but the mounts and hilts are recent to me. Could it be the same with an old Hungarian blade? Attached Images

18th December 2016, 06:58 PM	#2
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi Norman, It's easy, you have just to look at your own posts! http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=pala It's an Austrian/Hungarian sword with very strong Ottoman influences. Look also at the Magnate swords... Kind regards, Kubur

18th December 2016, 07:24 PM	#4
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,618	Hi Kai, The fittings are certainly not that recent as they are pretty dinged about, to my mind anyway, but this is out of my sphere of knowledge. If it is an Austro-Hungarian concoction then it probably won't be wootz. Thanks for replying. My Regards, Norman.

18th December 2016, 11:36 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	I too was thinking the region of Hungary.

18th December 2016, 06:58 PM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Norman, the blade seems to be forged from laminated steel, not wootz. The fittings look very recent to me... Regards, Kai

19th December 2016, 09:46 AM	#8
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	I also agree the blade is laminated, not wootz. It is European blade, the acid etching could be historicism period to add Oriental(ism) flavor to it. I also agree with Kai, the fittings strike me as very new. Those who make them now almost always bang them with various objects to add appearance of age and use, but the work, shape and form are very recent.

20th December 2016, 11:59 AM	#11
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,618	Hi Guys, Thanks to all for your comments. It would appear to be an older blade in newer non historical clothes. Do you think it would be a worthwhile or indeed an interesting exercise to dismount the blade and remount in historical suitable fittings and if so what would you suggest? Thanks again for all the ideas and comments. My Regards, Norman.