brief notes on a 16th century sword

cornelistromp · 20th November 2016, 02:53 PM

some additional pics.

cornelistromp · 20th November 2016, 02:55 PM

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corrado26 · 20th November 2016, 03:30 PM

Brief correction:
"this sword was among the lots ,straight out of the armoury of the Karlsruhe Castle" is not correct.
The whole collection and the sword came from the castle of Baden-Baden. At the time when this sword was made, the house of Baden-Baden was strictly separated from the house of Baden-Durlach (later capital Karlsruhe).
As I am living nearby I used the opportunity to be present at all 22 days of this huge auction .
corrado26

cornelistromp · 20th November 2016, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

Brief correction:
"this sword was among the lots ,straight out of the armoury of the Karlsruhe Castle" is not correct.
The whole collection and the sword came from the castle of Baden-Baden. At the time when this sword was made, the house of Baden-Baden was strictly separated from the house of Baden-Durlach (later capital Karlsruhe).
As I am living nearby I used the opportunity to be present at all 22 days of this huge auction .
corrado26

thanks, that must have been a very intersting experience, to join such an auction.
The following is indicated by Sotheby's in the catalogue nr 1 together with a Picture of the Karlsruher Castle!
The furniture and decorative objects depicted on the following pages are an integral part of the Baden and Kurpfalzian royal residential culture of 250 years.
so indeed not very clear where it comes from in great detail.
In any case, the sword is older than the above Castle, the Karlsruhe palace but may of course have been there for a period of time, who can tell.
nevertheles straight out of the armoury of the Baden-Baden Castle is fine.

Neues Schloss Baden-Baden, where the Sotheby's auction took place was the residence of christopher I from 1479 onwards.
In 1515 the margrave was divided into three parts, Christopher I handed over the country to his three sons.

with some (big) imagination the sword could have been owned by somebody near one of the three sons, perhaps near Bernhard III, regent for the left-Rhine possessions of the Markgrave from 1515-1535.
He was also founder of the house of Baden-Baden, thereby became the Separation of Baden-Durlach and Baden-Baden a fact in the year 1533.

best,
jasper

mariusgmioc · 21st November 2016, 09:43 AM

I am definitely not a specialist in the field and I am rather paranoid by nature... so for me this looks like ta typical 19century "Historismus" sword.

The mere fact that it came from an old and respected collection, doesn't make it necessarily genuine. I have seen other examles where otherwise reputed myuseums were dead wrong about the age of some of the items in their collections.

PS: See for example posting #20 in the thread below:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=chicago

cornelistromp · 21st November 2016, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

I am definitely not a specialist in the field and I am rather paranoid by nature... so for me this looks like ta typical 19century "Historismus" sword.

The mere fact that it came from an old and respected collection, doesn't make it necessarily genuine. I have seen other examles where otherwise reputed myuseums were dead wrong about the age of some of the items in their collections.

PS: See for example posting #20 in the thread below:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=chicago

no the provenance is never a guarantee, I studied and discussed the sword for some time now and have no doubt that the sword is 16th century.

furthermore I don't expect you to say something meaningful about the authenticity merely based on the small pictures alone.

nevertheless I welcome your opinion, even if you indicate that you are not a specialist and you have become a little paranoid.

best,
Jasper

corrado26 · 21st November 2016, 10:32 AM

As a then member of the staff of the Military Museum of Rastatt Castle I had been involved in writing the auction textes for the firearms offered at the Baden-Baden auction. So I had the opportunity to see that in the entrance hall of the Baden-Baden New Castle there have been many parts of armoures, mostly brestparts, helmets, swords and halberds which in my opinion all have been made in the 1870/80s. But as far as I know they all have been offered and sold as genuine pieces to mostly very high prices.
corrado26

cornelistromp · 21st November 2016, 10:50 AM

yes I did have some questions about some lots that I've seen there and have also seen real "gems"

which lot nrs do you mean, can you be more specific?

furthermore Please try to review the focus on the sword of post1.

best,
Jasper

20th November 2016, 02:53 PM	#1
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	some additional pics. Attached Images

21st November 2016, 09:43 AM	#5
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	I am definitely not a specialist in the field and I am rather paranoid by nature... so for me this looks like ta typical 19century "Historismus" sword. The mere fact that it came from an old and respected collection, doesn't make it necessarily genuine. I have seen other examles where otherwise reputed myuseums were dead wrong about the age of some of the items in their collections. PS: See for example posting #20 in the thread below: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=chicago Last edited by mariusgmioc; 21st November 2016 at 09:54 AM.

21st November 2016, 10:50 AM	#8
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	yes I did have some questions about some lots that I've seen there and have also seen real "gems" which lot nrs do you mean, can you be more specific? furthermore Please try to review the focus on the sword of post1. best, Jasper Last edited by cornelistromp; 21st November 2016 at 11:10 AM.

20th November 2016, 02:55 PM	#2
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	... Attached Images

20th November 2016, 03:30 PM	#3
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,231	Brief correction: "this sword was among the lots ,straight out of the armoury of the Karlsruhe Castle" is not correct. The whole collection and the sword came from the castle of Baden-Baden. At the time when this sword was made, the house of Baden-Baden was strictly separated from the house of Baden-Durlach (later capital Karlsruhe). As I am living nearby I used the opportunity to be present at all 22 days of this huge auction . corrado26

21st November 2016, 10:32 AM	#7
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,231	As a then member of the staff of the Military Museum of Rastatt Castle I had been involved in writing the auction textes for the firearms offered at the Baden-Baden auction. So I had the opportunity to see that in the entrance hall of the Baden-Baden New Castle there have been many parts of armoures, mostly brestparts, helmets, swords and halberds which in my opinion all have been made in the 1870/80s. But as far as I know they all have been offered and sold as genuine pieces to mostly very high prices. corrado26