Identification please...its a odd beauty!

Andy Davis · 20th February 2006, 10:54 PM

Hi all
A friend of mine has just bought this, as a lucky find. Any ideas what it is?
One of the Malayan types but doesnt seem to match anything that close in Stone.
Length of blade is 26" and very well made.
I hope you have lots of opinions!
Cheers
Andy

nechesh · 20th February 2006, 11:43 PM

That is interesting! The "mendak" looks somewhat Javanese, so i might venture it has a Javanese or Madurese origin. Inspite of the crackly hilt it doesn't look all that old. No sheath?

Rick · 21st February 2006, 12:37 AM

Is reminiscent of a Batak piso gadang ; only reminiscent though .
A puzzler .

kai · 21st February 2006, 08:13 AM

Interesting hilt style! There seems to be some variant writing on the pommel disk which may help to narrow down the origin.

Regards,
Kai

Andy Davis · 21st February 2006, 10:31 AM

The only thing we know, is that it has supposed to have arrived in England via Holland and origin before that is unkown.
Age, I'm not sure either. Old repair to the hilt, certainly means not new but all looks a bit clean.

Andy Davis · 22nd February 2006, 11:44 AM

Nobody have any ideas on that writing? Looks rather Arabic but I know nothing

Henk · 25th February 2006, 12:29 PM

I think this is a kalasan, a sword of the piso family from Sumatra. In the book by Van Zonneveld it is described that the hilts vary in shape and may be made of buffalo horn, deer horn, ivory or bronze. The hilts of ivory or deer horn are short and thick. They either widen broadly towards both points and are thus thinner in the centre, or only widen broadly near the end.

VVV · 26th February 2006, 11:33 PM

Sorry to spoil the conclusion but I am not that convinced that this is a Batak sword.
Is the tang round or square?
Usually the Batak blades, like Piso Gading or Kalasan, have small protrusions at the end of the blade (close to the tang) and they don't have a tip that turns upwards.
The blades are neither damascened like this nor are the tangs centered but follows the back of the blade.
Having a Keris mendak is something new as well as the shape of the hilt on this sword doesn't look like any traditional Batak sword.
I haven't either, so far, seen any Batak swords with Arabic texts on them.
But some of the tribes have converted to Islam and my experience is with the older variations of Batak weaponry so...

Michael

Andy Davis · 27th February 2006, 10:13 AM

Umm I think he may have something to say if I try to take it appart to see the shape of the tang. From what can be seen I would say square. But could be round, really hard to tell, any further into the body of the hilt.
Are we confirming that the writing is Arabic then?
Seems to still be a mystery.
Cheers all
Andy

Henk · 27th February 2006, 10:18 AM

Michael,

It is no conclusion but a guess.
It looks like the tang is square but it is hard to see on the pics. Also the position of the tang is not like the Piso swords you're showing.

But I was looking arround in some books and found in the book by Van Zonneveld the description of the Kalasan.

Looking a bit further Van Zonneveld shows some drawings of javanese sabres with pamor. So it might be such a javanese sabre. These blades could also be brought from Java to Sumatra, something that was not uncommon.

Being a javanese sabre it would explain the mendak like ring. In my opinion it isn't a keris mendak. The shape of the hilt? I dont know.

The weapon is a bring back item from the dutch colonial period. Maybe javanese or an assembled piece from Sumatra and not a Batak weapon at all. But your guess isn't so odd either.

Quote:

I haven't either, so far, seen any Batak swords with Arabic texts on them.
But some of the tribes have converted to Islam and my experience is with the older variations of Batak weaponry so...

Maybe someone else can give his opinion?

20th February 2006, 10:54 PM	#1
Andy Davis Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: England, Northumberland Posts: 85	Identification please...its a odd beauty! Hi all A friend of mine has just bought this, as a lucky find. Any ideas what it is? One of the Malayan types but doesnt seem to match anything that close in Stone. Length of blade is 26" and very well made. I hope you have lots of opinions! Cheers Andy Attached Images

21st February 2006, 12:37 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	The Blade Is reminiscent of a Batak piso gadang ; only reminiscent though . A puzzler .

26th February 2006, 11:33 PM	#8
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Sorry to spoil the conclusion but I am not that convinced that this is a Batak sword. Is the tang round or square? Usually the Batak blades, like Piso Gading or Kalasan, have small protrusions at the end of the blade (close to the tang) and they don't have a tip that turns upwards. The blades are neither damascened like this nor are the tangs centered but follows the back of the blade. Having a Keris mendak is something new as well as the shape of the hilt on this sword doesn't look like any traditional Batak sword. I haven't either, so far, seen any Batak swords with Arabic texts on them. But some of the tribes have converted to Islam and my experience is with the older variations of Batak weaponry so... Michael Attached Images

27th February 2006, 10:13 AM	#9
Andy Davis Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: England, Northumberland Posts: 85	Hard to say Umm I think he may have something to say if I try to take it appart to see the shape of the tang. From what can be seen I would say square. But could be round, really hard to tell, any further into the body of the hilt. Are we confirming that the writing is Arabic then? Seems to still be a mystery. Cheers all Andy Attached Images Last edited by Andy Davis; 27th February 2006 at 10:17 AM. Reason: Changed my opinion!!

20th February 2006, 11:43 PM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	That is interesting! The "mendak" looks somewhat Javanese, so i might venture it has a Javanese or Madurese origin. Inspite of the crackly hilt it doesn't look all that old. No sheath?

21st February 2006, 08:13 AM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Interesting hilt style! There seems to be some variant writing on the pommel disk which may help to narrow down the origin. Regards, Kai

21st February 2006, 10:31 AM	#5
Andy Davis Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: England, Northumberland Posts: 85	The only thing we know, is that it has supposed to have arrived in England via Holland and origin before that is unkown. Age, I'm not sure either. Old repair to the hilt, certainly means not new but all looks a bit clean.

22nd February 2006, 11:44 AM	#6
Andy Davis Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: England, Northumberland Posts: 85	Nobody have any ideas on that writing? Looks rather Arabic but I know nothing

25th February 2006, 12:29 PM	#7
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	I think this is a kalasan, a sword of the piso family from Sumatra. In the book by Van Zonneveld it is described that the hilts vary in shape and may be made of buffalo horn, deer horn, ivory or bronze. The hilts of ivory or deer horn are short and thick. They either widen broadly towards both points and are thus thinner in the centre, or only widen broadly near the end.