A late 16th century Dussack for comment

Jim McDougall · 6th November 2016, 11:20 PM

As Jasper notes, blade may not be original, though still of period. Most of these 'dusagge' in variations were indeed apparently the inspiration or compelling force in the development of the Scottish basket hilt.
Interestingly these often gained the term 'Sinclair sabre' as they were typically with heavy sabre blades, the term a misnomer from an unfortunate event in Norway where a Scottish unit was decimated

The chiseled 'running wolf' is regarded as the distinctive mark of blades from Passau, and the single stamped mark opposite is the 'mill rind' or 'twig' mark often heavily employed in North Italian blade centers. These regions are fairly close in proximity so traffic of blades between them does not seem unlikely.

Very nice example,now to look more toward the interesting motif in pommel and guard plate.

cornelistromp · 15th November 2016, 08:49 AM

similar hilt type in Dutch army Museum.
Attachement JP PUYPE van maurits naar munster.

Cerjak · 15th November 2016, 09:58 AM

Great Jasper!
Thank you very much for your research

Cerjak · 22nd November 2016, 10:33 AM

a similar hilt

Tordenskiold1721 · 23rd November 2016, 11:13 AM

Two similar hilts below.

The story that created the name "Sinclair Sabre":

At the Battle at Kringen, Norway 16 August 1612 it is likely that both the 400 - 600 Scottish soldiers where armed with the same type of swords that the Norwegian Peasant militia where armed with. The so called "Sinclair sabre" = Dussack.

King Christian IV(1577 - 1648, same king that lost the battle at Lutter 1626) had sent the first shipment of Dussack's to Norway in 1598 among other arms to build up the Norwegian Pesant milita's capability in preparation for war against Sweden. The battle at Kringen was part of this war that came, the Kalmar war 1611 - 1613. Denmark won.

The Peasant Militia was most likely well armed with snaphaunce muskets, hunting spears, pikes, Norwegian battle axes and Tessaks / Dussack's that is the Norwegian name for Dussack.

The Scottish corps under the command of Alexander Ramsay accompanied by George Sinclair was lightly armed and had been given the promise of being properly armed when joining the Swedish army in Southern Sweden. In addition to being well armed, the Norwegian Peasant militia had the advantage of an ambush from the high ground forcing the Scott's to fight in a chokepoint with little space for maneuver and escape. The ambush was sprung with an avalanche of rocks, followed with wooleys of musket fire before a full on attack with Dussack's, axes and pikes. supported by musket fire. Thus almost all Scott's died in the battle. 12 was captured and brought to Akershus castle while a unknown number of prisoners where tortured and executed the evening after the battle. Alexander Ramsay was killed early in the battle and George Sinclair was shoot dead with his pregnant wife during the battle. Brutal times!

Cerjak · 23rd November 2016, 05:47 PM

[QUOTE=Tordenskiold1721]Two similar hilts below.
Arne

Thank you very much to have post this two nice examples.
Best
JLC

cornelistromp · 23rd November 2016, 11:17 AM

Hi Jean Luc,

globular pommels are fairly simple in form but are rarely found on swords and rapiers in the 16thC.

In the Low Countries (Netherlands) unless other countries globular pommels were common between 1575-1600. frequently depicted in Dutch art. on rapiers and around 1650 on smallswords

therefore your transition dussage-rapier fits much better in a Dutch collection than in a French one , Don't you agree

above dussage typeF is a nice example, herewith some more pics.
forsvaret museum Aalborg Denmark nr. FMU.001156/5021/19644

Cerjak · 23rd November 2016, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

Hi Jean Luc,

globular pommels are fairly simple in form but are rarely found on swords and rapiers in the 16thC.

In the Low Countries (Netherlands) unless other countries globular pommels were common between 1575-1600. frequently depicted in Dutch art. on rapiers and around 1650 on smallswords

therefore your transition dussage-rapier fits much better in a Dutch collection than in a French one , Don't you agree

above dussage typeF is a nice example, herewith some more pics.
forsvaret museum Aalborg Denmark nr. FMU.001156/5021/19644

Jasper

Thank you for this additional pics and also museum references who are so important.
"therefore your transition dussage-rapier fits much better in a Dutch collection than in a French one , Don't you agree

"

It would be a shame if something happened to this sword.I know that your walls are already full ,and I would be very worried to hear that this sword is laying on your floor. But if you are ready to change your decoration ( less German but more Dutch) I could always help you to make space and could advice you which two hands swords or Katbalger you should sell or swap to me.

best

Jean-Luc

cornelistromp · 23rd November 2016, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerjak

Jasper

Thank you for this additional pics and also museum references who are so important.
"therefore your transition dussage-rapier fits much better in a Dutch collection than in a French one , Don't you agree

"

It would be a shame if something happened to this sword.I know that your walls are already full ,and I would be very worried to hear that this sword is laying on your floor. But if you are ready to change your decoration ( less German but more Dutch) I could always help you to make space and could advice you which two hands swords or Katbalger you should sell or swap to me.

best

Jean-Luc

We can discuss it after! a good bottle of Bordeaux -gcc, because I have a very pretty Afghan rifle to swap that could fit well in your collection.

15th November 2016, 08:49 AM	#2
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	similar hilt type in Dutch army Museum. Attachement JP PUYPE van maurits naar munster. Attached Images

22nd November 2016, 10:33 AM	#4
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	a similar hilt a similar hilt Attached Images

23rd November 2016, 11:13 AM	#5
Tordenskiold1721 Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 71	Two similar hilts below. The story that created the name "Sinclair Sabre": At the Battle at Kringen, Norway 16 August 1612 it is likely that both the 400 - 600 Scottish soldiers where armed with the same type of swords that the Norwegian Peasant militia where armed with. The so called "Sinclair sabre" = Dussack. King Christian IV(1577 - 1648, same king that lost the battle at Lutter 1626) had sent the first shipment of Dussack's to Norway in 1598 among other arms to build up the Norwegian Pesant milita's capability in preparation for war against Sweden. The battle at Kringen was part of this war that came, the Kalmar war 1611 - 1613. Denmark won. The Peasant Militia was most likely well armed with snaphaunce muskets, hunting spears, pikes, Norwegian battle axes and Tessaks / Dussack's that is the Norwegian name for Dussack. The Scottish corps under the command of Alexander Ramsay accompanied by George Sinclair was lightly armed and had been given the promise of being properly armed when joining the Swedish army in Southern Sweden. In addition to being well armed, the Norwegian Peasant militia had the advantage of an ambush from the high ground forcing the Scott's to fight in a chokepoint with little space for maneuver and escape. The ambush was sprung with an avalanche of rocks, followed with wooleys of musket fire before a full on attack with Dussack's, axes and pikes. supported by musket fire. Thus almost all Scott's died in the battle. 12 was captured and brought to Akershus castle while a unknown number of prisoners where tortured and executed the evening after the battle. Alexander Ramsay was killed early in the battle and George Sinclair was shoot dead with his pregnant wife during the battle. Brutal times! Attached Images Last edited by Tordenskiold1721; 23rd November 2016 at 04:33 PM.

23rd November 2016, 11:17 AM	#7
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	Hi Jean Luc, globular pommels are fairly simple in form but are rarely found on swords and rapiers in the 16thC. In the Low Countries (Netherlands) unless other countries globular pommels were common between 1575-1600. frequently depicted in Dutch art. on rapiers and around 1650 on smallswords therefore your transition dussage-rapier fits much better in a Dutch collection than in a French one , Don't you agree above dussage typeF is a nice example, herewith some more pics. forsvaret museum Aalborg Denmark nr. FMU.001156/5021/19644 Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 23rd November 2016 at 04:56 PM.

6th November 2016, 11:20 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,194	As Jasper notes, blade may not be original, though still of period. Most of these 'dusagge' in variations were indeed apparently the inspiration or compelling force in the development of the Scottish basket hilt. Interestingly these often gained the term 'Sinclair sabre' as they were typically with heavy sabre blades, the term a misnomer from an unfortunate event in Norway where a Scottish unit was decimated The chiseled 'running wolf' is regarded as the distinctive mark of blades from Passau, and the single stamped mark opposite is the 'mill rind' or 'twig' mark often heavily employed in North Italian blade centers. These regions are fairly close in proximity so traffic of blades between them does not seem unlikely. Very nice example,now to look more toward the interesting motif in pommel and guard plate.

15th November 2016, 09:58 AM	#3
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Great Jasper! Thank you very much for your research

23rd November 2016, 05:47 PM	#6
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	[QUOTE=Tordenskiold1721]Two similar hilts below. Arne Thank you very much to have post this two nice examples. Best JLC