The flowers on the tulwar hilts

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 31st October 2016, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Jens,

Firstly, Thank You for making your catalogue available! I have not yet got my copy.
When you started this thread, I wondered if you meant the flower (phool) or the disc decoration.
Quite a few years ago, I recall our discussions on just this subject, but am afraid I recall it imperfectly now.
I am quite sure however that the gist we agreed upon, was that the flower (on Hindu arms) was not merely decorative, but to attract the attention of a deity for some purpose, Or to symbolise the same.
I know poppies are associated with a certain deity, but do not remember which at present! Poppies are a very common theme in hilt decoration, as are Lotus buds.
For some reason, fishes as decoration appear to be limited to katars, and this may seem odd to others besides myself!
Fishes/Vishnu or one of the associated incarnations of the same deity never (never??) seem to appear on sword hilts.
I will have to do some looking and thinking on this interesting subject Jens. It has been off the back-burner for a Long time!

Salaams Pukka Bundook See http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ace+collection # 41 where there is a Tulvar sword numbered 1412 in that collection with Fish on the hilt... as below ~

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Pukka Bundook · 1st November 2016, 02:59 AM

Salaams Ibrahiim,

I thought when I wrote 'never' it would bring something to light!
Thank you for the link to that spectacular thread.
The tulwar you show here is very different in decoration to any I have seen before. Very well done and possibly unique. Thank you for this!

Richard.

Jens Nordlunde · 1st November 2016, 05:30 PM

I think we will have to see the 'flower' decorations in two steps.
The Phool is to my oppinion more orientated to a place/clan/sub clan and so on. As it is likely that the different clans, maybe of the same religion would use the same Phool. It can sometimes be a bit difficult to know which clan/sub clan belonged together, as they had differrent names.
The other flower decoration, the one on the hilt, is also somewhat orientated to a place, but far more to a fashion - to when it was made. This leads me to warn you that some of the decorations were made on far older weapons. The old decoration stripped off, and a new decoration started a new era of the weapon.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st January 2017, 05:27 PM

I suggest that since this excellent thread is nowhere near complete that it be given the traditional Forum Bump ! bringing it into focus for further research and comments.

In particular the mystic nature of this hilt artwork and its importance across the entire range of Indian weapons. In fact I would have preferred its tittle to have been all encompassing perhaps netting in the entire conundrum as Talismanic and Mystical Artwork of Indian Weapons; down the ages, or Indian Bladed Weapons; Mystical and Talismanic artwork. Or something similar so that the subject can have a full airing.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st January 2017, 06:04 PM

As an example of the apparent depth of the puzzle surrounding Daro Shikoh I refer here to the odd situation of his portrait portfolio at http://www.academia.edu/7202804/The_...interpretation

Quote''Most of the paintings can be fitted into a preconceived scheme, although the precise purpose of the flower paintings is not yet quite clear. The significant numbers of religious figures and both Hindu and Muslim ascetics of various persuasions obviously reflect Dara Shikoh’s early interest in religion and philosophy. Two Hindu yogis who form a pair by themselves are of earlier date than the rest of the album and these paintings have been enlarged to fit in. This is the only instance of paired ascetics in the album.

The prince we know from his writings was interested in Hindu philosophy from his youth, although he did not write about it until the late 1640s. He also studied the Hindu philosophical system of the Vedanta and produced a Persian translation of the Sanskrit Upanishads, while one of his later books compares the two mystical philosophies of the Vedanta and Sufism ''Unquote.

Although the reference draws a secondary conclusion based on the artwork it may be important to note that he was very much a believer in the Mystic aspects of life then...and it is worth looking at the floral clues on weaponry for a link. On the other hand it could turn out as a general statement that Daro Shikoh whilst fascinated by the arts, that this was entirely co incidental and that sword hilts..and possibly other weapons were simply painted to a set of known designs and that no such mystic based link prevailed.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st January 2017, 06:32 PM

Please see; http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/p...talismans.html

I have selected this North Indian design as it struck me that its circular pattern was reminiscent of the large disc atop Tulvar Pommels ..It is typically in Indian script and follows the geometry of such weapons ...whilst conveniently it is part of a treatise on Talismanic detail.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st January 2017, 07:44 PM

Please see; http://mini-site.louvre.fr/trois-emp...rustations.php

The following article which perhaps could have included the description Floral Artwork is entitled;

Quote"[B]Hardstones, gems and ivory in Mughal India.[/B]

Hardstone marquetry is a long-standing local tradition. The refined technique of inlay, which the Persian and Mughal chroniclers refer to as parchîn kârî, and which was brought to an almost unbelievable peak of excellence by the imperial stoneworkers during the reign of Shah Jahan, consisted of setting in marble or sandstone thin sections of hard or semi-hard stones that had been cut with the greatest of care and fashioned in the shape of tendrils and floral arabesques. The Frenchman François Bernier , who lived in India between 1656 and 1668, describes the mausoleum built by the Mughal emperor Shah Jahan (1628-1658) for his wife Mumtâz Mahal, in a letter dated 1663 to Monsieur de La Mothe Le Vayer: he speaks with great enthusiasm of the mausoleum’s perfect architecture and of its opulent interior decoration, floral motifs in white marble inlaid with jade, jasper and other sorts of precious stones.

The hardstones used in the decoration of the Taj Mahal, as well as in palaces and imperial buildings all over India and in the surrounding regions, included yellow amber from Burma, lapis-lazuli from Afghanistan, nephrite from Chinese Turkestan, and carnelian, agate, amethyst, jasper, green beryl, chalcedony, onyx and coral from the different regions of the huge Indian sub-continent.

At the Mughal court precious and semi-precious stones were also used to highlight imperial tableware, writing desks, mirrors, huqqa, weapons, royal saddles and even gold and silver gem-studded thrones. Rock-crystal and jade, hardstones which could only be worked with diamond dust, were particularly appreciated at the Mughal court. Objects fashioned in the second half of the seventeenth century by Mughal ateliers or karkhâna from jade – or to be more precise from the nephrite and jadeite imported from Kashgar and from Khotan – such as boxes and pen boxes, huqqa stands and mouthpieces, dagger hilts and archer’s thumb rings, bowls and cups, are particularly remarkable for their delicate inlays of precious stones, predominantly emeralds, diamonds, rubies and spinels, set in gold and forming stylized floral motifs.

Jade was thought to contain talismanic virtues such as the power of prolonging life – and indeed even that of ensuring immortality; it was also considered to favor success on the battlefield – hence its name of “stone of victory”. It was therefore considered the most appropriate material for the manufacture of ornate arms symbolizing victory. The hilts of these ornate weapons which were only used for ceremonial purposes were often carved in the shape of the head of a horse, a ram, an antelope, a lion or a falcon, always with a quite remarkable and moving expressivity. This repertoire of animal motifs is known to have existed as early as the second half of the reign of Jahangir, and became particularly important under the emperor Shah Jahan.

Ivory carving was an important craft in ancient India. It was to be equally appreciated at the Mughal court, where it was used in the making and ornamentation of chests and caskets, as well as dagger hilts, flasks and powder horns. The latter were given a lively, zoomorphic décor, in which different birds and animals were intermingled – elephants, lions, monkeys, buffaloes, rams, antelopes and hares, as well as composite and imaginary animals. Hunt scenes predominate in these exuberant animal scenes, derived from the iconographic repertoire of Mughal miniatures. Similar scenes also appear in the décor of late sixteenth and early seventeenth century Mughal carpets. Some of the ivory powder horns were clearly gilded and embellished with colors, and the eyes of the animals were occasionally encrusted with amber and precious or semi-precious stones.

The floral and plant motifs predominate in the decorative repertoire of Mughal India. The combination of the naturalistic yet subtly stylized treatment of Mughal flowers, together with their balanced and symmetrical arrangement, is emblematic of Mughal taste in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, when the floral motif became a leitmotiv that permeated all the arts of the court (textiles and decorative arts, arts of the book) and even architecture. This fascination with the floral motif can be traced back to the reign of the Emperor Jahangir. It originated during a journey made by Jahangir in 1620 to Kashmir, a country where the emperor was enchanted by the variety and profusion of the flowers which grew there, and which he was subsequently wont to describe as “a garden where spring reigns eternally”. During this trip the monarch was accompanied by one of the great masters of the imperial atelier of painting, the animal painter Ustâd Mansûr Nâdir al’Asr, who, at the request of the sovereign, executed more than a hundred flower studies, of which only three precious examples still survive.

This poetic delight in the exuberant blossoming flowers of Kashmir was reinforced by the discovery of European herbals brought to the Mughal court by Jesuit missionaries and agents of the East India Company.

The herbals were to exert considerable influence on Mughal flower painting, on the precision with which they were drawn, on the extreme care taken with the representation of botanical details, and on the presence of butterflies and dragonflies fluttering above the corollas and leaves, which Mughal artists, who were familiar with Persian works, often replaced with small meandrous-shaped Chinese clouds (t’chi), which were considered in China to be the vehicles of the gods, and which became a decorative motif in Persian art. As so pertinently noted by M. L. Swietochowski, the regular arrangement of flowers and bouquets in the margins of Mughal miniatures is reminiscent of the ornamentation of a number of Books of Hours from the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries, and perhaps even more so of the borders of Flemish engravings on religious subjects".Unquote

21st January 2017, 05:27 PM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Dara Shikoh ... A Mystic in his own right.. Artistic Influence. I suggest that since this excellent thread is nowhere near complete that it be given the traditional Forum Bump ! bringing it into focus for further research and comments. In particular the mystic nature of this hilt artwork and its importance across the entire range of Indian weapons. In fact I would have preferred its tittle to have been all encompassing perhaps netting in the entire conundrum as Talismanic and Mystical Artwork of Indian Weapons; down the ages, or Indian Bladed Weapons; Mystical and Talismanic artwork. Or something similar so that the subject can have a full airing. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

21st January 2017, 06:32 PM	#6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Please see; http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/p...talismans.html I have selected this North Indian design as it struck me that its circular pattern was reminiscent of the large disc atop Tulvar Pommels ..It is typically in Indian script and follows the geometry of such weapons ...whilst conveniently it is part of a treatise on Talismanic detail. Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 21st January 2017 at 08:05 PM. Reason: correction

21st January 2017, 07:44 PM	#7
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	TALISMANIC FLORAL DECORATION ON INDIAN WEAPONS. Please see; http://mini-site.louvre.fr/trois-emp...rustations.php The following article which perhaps could have included the description Floral Artwork is entitled; Quote"[B]Hardstones, gems and ivory in Mughal India.[/B] Hardstone marquetry is a long-standing local tradition. The refined technique of inlay, which the Persian and Mughal chroniclers refer to as parchîn kârî, and which was brought to an almost unbelievable peak of excellence by the imperial stoneworkers during the reign of Shah Jahan, consisted of setting in marble or sandstone thin sections of hard or semi-hard stones that had been cut with the greatest of care and fashioned in the shape of tendrils and floral arabesques. The Frenchman François Bernier , who lived in India between 1656 and 1668, describes the mausoleum built by the Mughal emperor Shah Jahan (1628-1658) for his wife Mumtâz Mahal, in a letter dated 1663 to Monsieur de La Mothe Le Vayer: he speaks with great enthusiasm of the mausoleum’s perfect architecture and of its opulent interior decoration, floral motifs in white marble inlaid with jade, jasper and other sorts of precious stones. The hardstones used in the decoration of the Taj Mahal, as well as in palaces and imperial buildings all over India and in the surrounding regions, included yellow amber from Burma, lapis-lazuli from Afghanistan, nephrite from Chinese Turkestan, and carnelian, agate, amethyst, jasper, green beryl, chalcedony, onyx and coral from the different regions of the huge Indian sub-continent. At the Mughal court precious and semi-precious stones were also used to highlight imperial tableware, writing desks, mirrors, huqqa, weapons, royal saddles and even gold and silver gem-studded thrones. Rock-crystal and jade, hardstones which could only be worked with diamond dust, were particularly appreciated at the Mughal court. Objects fashioned in the second half of the seventeenth century by Mughal ateliers or karkhâna from jade – or to be more precise from the nephrite and jadeite imported from Kashgar and from Khotan – such as boxes and pen boxes, huqqa stands and mouthpieces, dagger hilts and archer’s thumb rings, bowls and cups, are particularly remarkable for their delicate inlays of precious stones, predominantly emeralds, diamonds, rubies and spinels, set in gold and forming stylized floral motifs. Jade was thought to contain talismanic virtues such as the power of prolonging life – and indeed even that of ensuring immortality; it was also considered to favor success on the battlefield – hence its name of “stone of victory”. It was therefore considered the most appropriate material for the manufacture of ornate arms symbolizing victory. The hilts of these ornate weapons which were only used for ceremonial purposes were often carved in the shape of the head of a horse, a ram, an antelope, a lion or a falcon, always with a quite remarkable and moving expressivity. This repertoire of animal motifs is known to have existed as early as the second half of the reign of Jahangir, and became particularly important under the emperor Shah Jahan. Ivory carving was an important craft in ancient India. It was to be equally appreciated at the Mughal court, where it was used in the making and ornamentation of chests and caskets, as well as dagger hilts, flasks and powder horns. The latter were given a lively, zoomorphic décor, in which different birds and animals were intermingled – elephants, lions, monkeys, buffaloes, rams, antelopes and hares, as well as composite and imaginary animals. Hunt scenes predominate in these exuberant animal scenes, derived from the iconographic repertoire of Mughal miniatures. Similar scenes also appear in the décor of late sixteenth and early seventeenth century Mughal carpets. Some of the ivory powder horns were clearly gilded and embellished with colors, and the eyes of the animals were occasionally encrusted with amber and precious or semi-precious stones. The floral and plant motifs predominate in the decorative repertoire of Mughal India. The combination of the naturalistic yet subtly stylized treatment of Mughal flowers, together with their balanced and symmetrical arrangement, is emblematic of Mughal taste in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, when the floral motif became a leitmotiv that permeated all the arts of the court (textiles and decorative arts, arts of the book) and even architecture. This fascination with the floral motif can be traced back to the reign of the Emperor Jahangir. It originated during a journey made by Jahangir in 1620 to Kashmir, a country where the emperor was enchanted by the variety and profusion of the flowers which grew there, and which he was subsequently wont to describe as “a garden where spring reigns eternally”. During this trip the monarch was accompanied by one of the great masters of the imperial atelier of painting, the animal painter Ustâd Mansûr Nâdir al’Asr, who, at the request of the sovereign, executed more than a hundred flower studies, of which only three precious examples still survive. This poetic delight in the exuberant blossoming flowers of Kashmir was reinforced by the discovery of European herbals brought to the Mughal court by Jesuit missionaries and agents of the East India Company. The herbals were to exert considerable influence on Mughal flower painting, on the precision with which they were drawn, on the extreme care taken with the representation of botanical details, and on the presence of butterflies and dragonflies fluttering above the corollas and leaves, which Mughal artists, who were familiar with Persian works, often replaced with small meandrous-shaped Chinese clouds (t’chi), which were considered in China to be the vehicles of the gods, and which became a decorative motif in Persian art. As so pertinently noted by M. L. Swietochowski, the regular arrangement of flowers and bouquets in the margins of Mughal miniatures is reminiscent of the ornamentation of a number of Books of Hours from the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries, and perhaps even more so of the borders of Flemish engravings on religious subjects".Unquote Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 21st January 2017 at 07:54 PM.

1st November 2016, 02:59 AM	#2
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Salaams Ibrahiim, I thought when I wrote 'never' it would bring something to light! Thank you for the link to that spectacular thread. The tulwar you show here is very different in decoration to any I have seen before. Very well done and possibly unique. Thank you for this! Richard.

1st November 2016, 05:30 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I think we will have to see the 'flower' decorations in two steps. The Phool is to my oppinion more orientated to a place/clan/sub clan and so on. As it is likely that the different clans, maybe of the same religion would use the same Phool. It can sometimes be a bit difficult to know which clan/sub clan belonged together, as they had differrent names. The other flower decoration, the one on the hilt, is also somewhat orientated to a place, but far more to a fashion - to when it was made. This leads me to warn you that some of the decorations were made on far older weapons. The old decoration stripped off, and a new decoration started a new era of the weapon.

21st January 2017, 06:04 PM	#5
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	As an example of the apparent depth of the puzzle surrounding Daro Shikoh I refer here to the odd situation of his portrait portfolio at http://www.academia.edu/7202804/The_...interpretation Quote''Most of the paintings can be fitted into a preconceived scheme, although the precise purpose of the flower paintings is not yet quite clear. The significant numbers of religious figures and both Hindu and Muslim ascetics of various persuasions obviously reflect Dara Shikoh’s early interest in religion and philosophy. Two Hindu yogis who form a pair by themselves are of earlier date than the rest of the album and these paintings have been enlarged to fit in. This is the only instance of paired ascetics in the album. The prince we know from his writings was interested in Hindu philosophy from his youth, although he did not write about it until the late 1640s. He also studied the Hindu philosophical system of the Vedanta and produced a Persian translation of the Sanskrit Upanishads, while one of his later books compares the two mystical philosophies of the Vedanta and Sufism ''Unquote. Although the reference draws a secondary conclusion based on the artwork it may be important to note that he was very much a believer in the Mystic aspects of life then...and it is worth looking at the floral clues on weaponry for a link. On the other hand it could turn out as a general statement that Daro Shikoh whilst fascinated by the arts, that this was entirely co incidental and that sword hilts..and possibly other weapons were simply painted to a set of known designs and that no such mystic based link prevailed. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.