Kris for discussion

Sajen · 30th October 2016, 07:16 PM

Your both very nice Lombok pedang are complete other swords as your Javanese one, your both have the original wooden scabbards.

Regards,
Detlef

naga82 · 31st October 2016, 01:00 AM

Any ideas on the eyelash type mark on both sides of the blade?
Thanks jj

Sajen · 4th November 2016, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naga82

Any ideas on the eyelash type mark on both sides of the blade?
Thanks jj

It could be that this the lines from a pamor tambal.

But this would be only clear when you polish and etch the blade.

Regards,
Detlef

GIO · 4th November 2016, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Your both very nice Lombok pedang .....

Regards,
Detlef

Lombok ?? I think Sumatra Palembang

Sajen · 4th November 2016, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIO

Lombok ?? I think Sumatra Palembang

Tomy knowledge they are from Lombok, the very similar ones from Sumatra look different.

Regards,
Detlef

ariel · 4th November 2016, 11:02 PM

Replace the handle, make new scabbard....

Are we preparing this sword for WWIII?

This is an antique, for Heavens sake!

I think we need to show a bit more respect to this old warrior.

Sajen · 11th November 2016, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Replace the handle, make new scabbard....

Are we preparing this sword for WWIII?

This is an antique, for Heavens sake!

I think we need to show a bit more respect to this old warrior.

Hello Ariel,

the different view Alan has explained already but the minimum what I would do with this sword is try to remove the green paint at the hilt carefully. And a try to fix the movement from the wooden part is worth the effort IMVHO.

Regards,
Detlef

GIO · 5th November 2016, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Tomy knowledge they are from Lombok, the very similar ones from Sumatra look different.

Regards,
Detlef

I admit my limited knowledge and accept the opinion of much more experienced friends.
I take this opportunity to ask what are the details which can identify the origin Lombok or Sumatra. Thanks for your kindness.
Gio

Sajen · 5th November 2016, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIO

I admit my limited knowledge and accept the opinion of much more experienced friends.
I take this opportunity to ask what are the details which can identify the origin Lombok or Sumatra. Thanks for your kindness.
Gio

Hello GIO,

I don't know if I am more experienced as you (I doubt

) but I will try to show it. I don't have Sumatra pedangs in my collection, only two from Lombok so I have to look for examples from which I think that they could originate from Sumatra.
Examples from Lombok have been 20 years ago relative cheap and many times offered in Indonesia and also by ebay they have been seen many times for very good prices.
Lombok examples: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=lombok+pedang & http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=pedang

And here you can see Sumatra examples (like said to my humble understanding): http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=pedang and in fact the examples 1, 9, 14 and 15 and maybe 2. The others in this thread to my understanding from Lombok.

Best regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 5th November 2016, 05:02 PM

And look this post: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...3&postcount=16 from this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=pedang which you should read complete since I think that the attribution of this type of pendang is unclear already long.

A. G. Maisey · 5th November 2016, 10:04 PM

Ariel, I do understand that from your perspective the comments I have made in respect of the ideal restoration for this pedang might seem a little extreme. However, we form our opinions based upon our experience and background:- your experience and background indicates that the restoration I would deem to be suitable is going too far, whereas my experience and background tells me that I am looking at something that has been very poorly treated in the past and now deserves to be given some respect.

When dealing with the respected iron (tosan aji) of Indonesia, and of Jawa and Bali in particular, we need to try to understand that it is the iron component alone of a weapon that holds the spirit of the weapon, the hilt and scabbard are merely dress items. The parallel can be drawn, and in Javanese thought is drawn, with a human being:- a man stripped of his clothing contains his spirit within, it is the man we value, not the clothing. Similarly with a weapon:- it is the blade we value, the dress is a passing thing.

If this pedang were to fall into the hands of a Javanese gentleman who followed traditional values, it would probably be stripped of that hilt, and the inferior scabbard, and totally redressed in a bespoke hilt and scabbard of scented sandalwood. The blade would be minimally reshaped to remove rough edges, the faces of the blade may, or may not be slightly re-polished, then restained. In short, it would undergo a complete renovation, the objective of which would be to bring the tosan aji component of this pedang to a standard which would assist in the continuation of its life --- yes, it is alive --- for following generations.

Anybody who has received traditional instruction in the field of Javanese values would recognise that these actions described above are a duty to the maker of this blade, to its previous owners, and to the culture of which all are a part.

I understand that this is a slightly different way of looking at things from the usual way in which collectors of antiques from Western cultures look at what they collect, but in the thought patterns of the culture from which this pedang comes, it is not really an antique, it is tosan aji, and as such a living thing.

30th October 2016, 07:16 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,207	Your both very nice Lombok pedang are complete other swords as your Javanese one, your both have the original wooden scabbards. Regards, Detlef

31st October 2016, 01:00 AM	#2
naga82 Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 8	Any ideas on the eyelash type mark on both sides of the blade? Thanks jj

4th November 2016, 11:02 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Replace the handle, make new scabbard.... Are we preparing this sword for WWIII? This is an antique, for Heavens sake! I think we need to show a bit more respect to this old warrior.

5th November 2016, 05:02 PM	#10
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,207	And look this post: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...3&postcount=16 from this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=pedang which you should read complete since I think that the attribution of this type of pendang is unclear already long.

5th November 2016, 10:04 PM	#11
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Ariel, I do understand that from your perspective the comments I have made in respect of the ideal restoration for this pedang might seem a little extreme. However, we form our opinions based upon our experience and background:- your experience and background indicates that the restoration I would deem to be suitable is going too far, whereas my experience and background tells me that I am looking at something that has been very poorly treated in the past and now deserves to be given some respect. When dealing with the respected iron (tosan aji) of Indonesia, and of Jawa and Bali in particular, we need to try to understand that it is the iron component alone of a weapon that holds the spirit of the weapon, the hilt and scabbard are merely dress items. The parallel can be drawn, and in Javanese thought is drawn, with a human being:- a man stripped of his clothing contains his spirit within, it is the man we value, not the clothing. Similarly with a weapon:- it is the blade we value, the dress is a passing thing. If this pedang were to fall into the hands of a Javanese gentleman who followed traditional values, it would probably be stripped of that hilt, and the inferior scabbard, and totally redressed in a bespoke hilt and scabbard of scented sandalwood. The blade would be minimally reshaped to remove rough edges, the faces of the blade may, or may not be slightly re-polished, then restained. In short, it would undergo a complete renovation, the objective of which would be to bring the tosan aji component of this pedang to a standard which would assist in the continuation of its life --- yes, it is alive --- for following generations. Anybody who has received traditional instruction in the field of Javanese values would recognise that these actions described above are a duty to the maker of this blade, to its previous owners, and to the culture of which all are a part. I understand that this is a slightly different way of looking at things from the usual way in which collectors of antiques from Western cultures look at what they collect, but in the thought patterns of the culture from which this pedang comes, it is not really an antique, it is tosan aji, and as such a living thing.