Kris for discussion

[Sajen]

It's an old Javanese pedang IMVHO. Not a keris or kris. BTW, welcome to the forum.

See for a similar blade here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...avanese+pedang

[Sajen]

All what I can say about your sword is said already from Alan G. Maisey in post #15 in the above given thread with some exceptions. The dress of your blade is older, maybe from the turn of the centuries until early 20th century but for sure not the first dress.

Regards,
Detlef

[Battara]

I agree with Sajen completely.

[A. G. Maisey]

Detlef, I agree that this is a pretty nice pedang, I also agree that the scabbard is much more recent than the blade, but the brass of the hilt is original.

The grip itself may or may not be original, and it was certainly never stained green originally.

This pedang should become a restoration project, the grip should be replaced with well fitted wood, the scabbard should be replaced with a properly sewn leather one. In actual use the scabbards of these old pedangs seemed to be nearly always leather. The originals got lost, or decayed, and they were replaced with wood, which is probably superior as a long term solution when the weapon is not actually being used. However, in this case I'd probably opt for leather, because we still have the original brass hilt, and that is something that is pretty scarce. This pedang could be brought back to what it was when it was first made.

[Sajen]

Hello Alan,

I am not sure how the original scabbards are worked, I've handled once a similar pedang with a scabbard fragment, it was wood covered with leather but have seen also some with pure leather fragments. Any suggestions from you? And which wood would you personally prefer as grip?

Best regards,
Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

When I said "leather", I was thinking of the normal sort of leather construction that is saddle leather over very thin liners of wood:- its not a wooden scabbard, its a leather scabbard, but it is lined with wood. Lots of old sword scabbards were made this way, I cannot recall seeing an old sword scabbard that was all leather.

Knife sheaths from European based cultures are most often of leather , and most often without wooden liners, but very frequently a knife sheath will have the stitching protected by an inlay of leather that is between the two faces of the sheath. When I've made sheaths for the knives I've made myself I've made them in this way.

I've seen a lot of old Indian swords with these wood lined leather scabbards, but even though probably most Javanese swords had leather scabbards from at least early colonial times, these days it is very, very seldom that you find a Javanese pedang in its original leather scabbard. They've become a real rarity.

As for what sort of wood I'd use for a grip, if I was in Jawa I'd probably use sono. There's another wood that I've forgotten the name of that is used a lot for tool handles in Jawa, I'd be happy with that too. I wouldn't use cendono jowo, its easy to work, but in my opinion a bit too prone to fracture for a sword hilt. If I had to do the job here in Australia, I'd probably use one of the Australian hardwoods that are used for tool handles, maybe spotted gum.

[Sajen]

Thank you Alan for the like usual clear and elaborately respond. Yes, this is what I've meant, I know the scabbards from this Javanese pedangs are made this way, with wooden liners.
I've asked because most of the Luzon leather scabbards are all leather ones. You know maybe that I am interested to Luzon swords, so my question. Over there it's the exception to see reinforced leather scabbard with wooden liners.
And like you I know that it's more as seldom to find a Javanese pedang in original sarung, most blades have replacement sarungs and also hilts.

Like you I would like to see this pedang well restored, to seldom you get the chance.

Regards,
Detlef