Recently Acquired Espada Ancha for Comment

drac2k · 23rd October 2016, 09:12 PM

Jim, I was hoping you would comment on this post as I know you are very well informed on these swords as well as others ; our previous conversations may have been the impetus for my attraction to these weapons.

Jim McDougall · 23rd October 2016, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drac2k

Jim, I was hoping you would comment on this post as I know you are very well informed on these swords as well as others ; our previous conversations may have been the impetus for my attraction to these weapons.

David, you are definitely rekindling my fires with these great examples!!! auuughhh!! outstanding.
Thank you for sharing !!

M ELEY · 27th October 2016, 02:39 AM

I must also thank you, David, for posting these! I have always found these colonial Spanish weapons both fascinating and historically relevant. Many approach the bounds of 'folk art' in my opinion!

Jim, you indeed are an expert when it comes to these amazing pieces! Living in the South West and assisting museums out that way undoubtedly contributed to your endless knowledge on the subject!

The second piece intrigues me, as I have seen espada where another guard or hilt is superimposed over another to create this double effect. The first one I ever saw I assumed to be a makeshift one-ff piece, but since then, it was definitely a repeated form. Frederick's Swords catalog had one years ago with a dish guard followed by up/down facing quillons before the blade. Interestingly, he listed it as 'possible Spanish pirate??', which is why I remember it so keenly! Always great to see these types of weapons, where the bladesmith used what he had in outposts limited for supplies...

drac2k · 28th October 2016, 12:43 AM

Thanks for the kind words;Spanish Pirate Sword, I think I like that !

M ELEY · 28th October 2016, 03:55 AM

Well, it's not TOO much of a stretch when you think about it. Aside from the Golden Age of Piracy (1600-1718), the next largest profusion of piracy came to the Spanish Main during the fights for independence among the Central and South American countries as well as Mexico. During this era (1800-1820), piracy once again shot up to huge numbers, with an estimated 4,000 or so Hispanic pirates/privateers swarming around the Indies. Some were true patrons of independence for their country, while others were blood-thirsty murderers and madmen. Espada were, of course, used throughout the Spanish colonies (Brincherhoff's book on Spanish colonial weapons for example shows Cuban espada ancha circa 1810-20 that could easily have fit the bill). As you might know, there was no such thing as a pirate-pattern sword. Sea rovers carried the more typical types of short hangers that their fellow naval men used, along with whatever weapon they could get their hands on. We've discussed how even infantry type swords and hunting hangers went to sea. Annis proved as much in his monumental 'Swords for Sea Service'. My whole point is that I believe some espada probably went to sea. Jim McDoudall and I have discussed this topic ceaselessly and I've insisted that those massive Brazilian cutlasses would have made a fine pirate weapon! Of course, without provenance it is all just speculation, but it stands to reason that because espada were found throughout the Spanish colonies in the Americas, were short bladed and ideal for crowded situations and were easy to construct, some undoubtedly ended up aboard the scalawags!

machinist · 28th October 2016, 06:40 AM

These are some very interesting and desirable swords, the finger ringed dirk is pretty typical, if a bit nicer than most but the other two have so many unusual characteristics.
On espada ancha you expect a certain uniqueness with each sword but not this much. The blades are pretty nice with both having such wide ricassos, looking nothing like the blacksmith made blades I usually see.

The spiky rivets on the branch hilt and the extra cross guard out front are features sometimes seen but not common and the provision for a folding guard on the stirrup hilt is something I have not seen on one of these in my limited experience.

The branch hilt having the same style of grip as the dirk is interesting, I saw a Caribbean cup hilt with that same kind of grip and assumed it was a replacement as it was so atypical for that sword. These seem like real outliers.
Were they purchased from the same source?
They really fill me with more questions than answers.

drac2k · 28th October 2016, 11:18 AM

Thank you gentlemen for your insightful comments.The swords were purchased from different vendors over a 3 year period.

23rd October 2016, 09:12 PM	#1
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,281	Jim, I was hoping you would comment on this post as I know you are very well informed on these swords as well as others ; our previous conversations may have been the impetus for my attraction to these weapons.

27th October 2016, 02:39 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,196	I must also thank you, David, for posting these! I have always found these colonial Spanish weapons both fascinating and historically relevant. Many approach the bounds of 'folk art' in my opinion! Jim, you indeed are an expert when it comes to these amazing pieces! Living in the South West and assisting museums out that way undoubtedly contributed to your endless knowledge on the subject! The second piece intrigues me, as I have seen espada where another guard or hilt is superimposed over another to create this double effect. The first one I ever saw I assumed to be a makeshift one-ff piece, but since then, it was definitely a repeated form. Frederick's Swords catalog had one years ago with a dish guard followed by up/down facing quillons before the blade. Interestingly, he listed it as 'possible Spanish pirate??', which is why I remember it so keenly! Always great to see these types of weapons, where the bladesmith used what he had in outposts limited for supplies...

28th October 2016, 12:43 AM	#4
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,281	Thanks for the kind words;Spanish Pirate Sword, I think I like that !

28th October 2016, 03:55 AM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,196	Well, it's not TOO much of a stretch when you think about it. Aside from the Golden Age of Piracy (1600-1718), the next largest profusion of piracy came to the Spanish Main during the fights for independence among the Central and South American countries as well as Mexico. During this era (1800-1820), piracy once again shot up to huge numbers, with an estimated 4,000 or so Hispanic pirates/privateers swarming around the Indies. Some were true patrons of independence for their country, while others were blood-thirsty murderers and madmen. Espada were, of course, used throughout the Spanish colonies (Brincherhoff's book on Spanish colonial weapons for example shows Cuban espada ancha circa 1810-20 that could easily have fit the bill). As you might know, there was no such thing as a pirate-pattern sword. Sea rovers carried the more typical types of short hangers that their fellow naval men used, along with whatever weapon they could get their hands on. We've discussed how even infantry type swords and hunting hangers went to sea. Annis proved as much in his monumental 'Swords for Sea Service'. My whole point is that I believe some espada probably went to sea. Jim McDoudall and I have discussed this topic ceaselessly and I've insisted that those massive Brazilian cutlasses would have made a fine pirate weapon! Of course, without provenance it is all just speculation, but it stands to reason that because espada were found throughout the Spanish colonies in the Americas, were short bladed and ideal for crowded situations and were easy to construct, some undoubtedly ended up aboard the scalawags!

28th October 2016, 06:40 AM	#6
machinist Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 93	These are some very interesting and desirable swords, the finger ringed dirk is pretty typical, if a bit nicer than most but the other two have so many unusual characteristics. On espada ancha you expect a certain uniqueness with each sword but not this much. The blades are pretty nice with both having such wide ricassos, looking nothing like the blacksmith made blades I usually see. The spiky rivets on the branch hilt and the extra cross guard out front are features sometimes seen but not common and the provision for a folding guard on the stirrup hilt is something I have not seen on one of these in my limited experience. The branch hilt having the same style of grip as the dirk is interesting, I saw a Caribbean cup hilt with that same kind of grip and assumed it was a replacement as it was so atypical for that sword. These seem like real outliers. Were they purchased from the same source? They really fill me with more questions than answers.

28th October 2016, 11:18 AM	#7
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,281	Thank you gentlemen for your insightful comments.The swords were purchased from different vendors over a 3 year period.