Scottish Skean Dhu

Norman McCormick · 17th October 2016, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Jim,

I gather it was later, in the Highland revival that it began to be worn in the hose top, and showing.

Hi,
These days almost all "Scottishness" re dress etc can be traced back to Victorian embellishments and ideas made popular by Victoria and Albert and their fascination with Scotland. Even earlier Sir Walter Scott in his novels romanticised the idea of Scotland and all things Scottish but then again they were novels and a lot of them are still a good read today.
Regards,
Norman.

corrado26 · 17th October 2016, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

a lot of them are still a good read today.

This I must really agree with - I love these novels and have red them more than once
corrado26

Battara · 17th October 2016, 05:10 PM

Yeah anything truly Scottish before Victorian influence is from the
Battle of Culloden and back.

However, when it comes to sgian dubhs, I have found that the later mid-19th century showed more Celtic knotwork (which I dearly love!

). Yet I favor dirks from the 1780s back.

Strange, I know................

Jim McDougall · 17th October 2016, 08:40 PM

It is good to see that true romantics abound here!!!
ere's to ye lads!!!

blue lander · 26th October 2016, 07:31 PM

Is there a significance to the hilt being black? I ask because I've been reading through the Irish "National Folklore Collection", and several stories involve using a "black handled knife" to break a curse or other "magic". It makes me wonder if there's some cultural significance to black handled knives in Celtic cultures.

Here are some examples of stories featuring a black handled knife:

http://www.duchas.ie/en/src?q=black+handled+knife

Norman McCormick · 26th October 2016, 07:52 PM

Hi,
Traditionally, and I use the term in its broadest sense, Sgian Dhu and sometimes Dirk hilts are made with bog oak which as the name suggests is oak that has been in a bog for a very long time, hard and durable takes carving well and dark brown or black. As in all cultures that relied heavily on nature and its vagaries Celtic, Nordic etc., most things had a 'supernatural' significance as well as a day to day significance so I suspect a well known wood such as oak that came from a bog, which in itself had a supernatural aspect e.g. possible ritual human sacrifice, hence the Scandinavian and Irish bog bodies, could well have a special ritualistic significance but I don't think there is a definitive answer to your question there just isn't the archeological evidence as far as I'm aware. I've most definitely been wrong before so who knows.
Regards,
Norman.

blue lander · 26th October 2016, 09:59 PM

That makes sense, thank you. If I find a more specific explanation in these Irish folktales I'll be sure to post it. So far two stories have used them for breaking curses, two for scaring off fairies, and a handful say they need to be used when operating on sick livestock.

26th October 2016, 07:31 PM	#5
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Is there a significance to the hilt being black? I ask because I've been reading through the Irish "National Folklore Collection", and several stories involve using a "black handled knife" to break a curse or other "magic". It makes me wonder if there's some cultural significance to black handled knives in Celtic cultures. Here are some examples of stories featuring a black handled knife: http://www.duchas.ie/en/src?q=black+handled+knife Last edited by blue lander; 26th October 2016 at 07:41 PM.

17th October 2016, 05:10 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Yeah anything truly Scottish before Victorian influence is from the Battle of Culloden and back. However, when it comes to sgian dubhs, I have found that the later mid-19th century showed more Celtic knotwork (which I dearly love! ). Yet I favor dirks from the 1780s back. Strange, I know................

17th October 2016, 08:40 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,196	It is good to see that true romantics abound here!!! ere's to ye lads!!!

26th October 2016, 07:52 PM	#6
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hi, Traditionally, and I use the term in its broadest sense, Sgian Dhu and sometimes Dirk hilts are made with bog oak which as the name suggests is oak that has been in a bog for a very long time, hard and durable takes carving well and dark brown or black. As in all cultures that relied heavily on nature and its vagaries Celtic, Nordic etc., most things had a 'supernatural' significance as well as a day to day significance so I suspect a well known wood such as oak that came from a bog, which in itself had a supernatural aspect e.g. possible ritual human sacrifice, hence the Scandinavian and Irish bog bodies, could well have a special ritualistic significance but I don't think there is a definitive answer to your question there just isn't the archeological evidence as far as I'm aware. I've most definitely been wrong before so who knows. Regards, Norman.

26th October 2016, 09:59 PM	#7
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	That makes sense, thank you. If I find a more specific explanation in these Irish folktales I'll be sure to post it. So far two stories have used them for breaking curses, two for scaring off fairies, and a handful say they need to be used when operating on sick livestock.