My Bugis keris

Johan van Zyl · 16th October 2016, 11:44 AM

Gustav, Kai & Alan have come in : I thank you also. All your judgements are of great importance to me, as I have many aspects of the keris to learn. Which saddens me that Alan has opted to withhold comment, but of course I need to respect that also, and I do.

Kai, the blade length is 12.3 inches, that's 31.2 cm.

I now have quite a few facts on the table pertaining to this keris, thanks to you all, and this prompts questions in my mind:

1 How is it that this particular blade can have the necessary visible features that enable experienced students of the keris to be able to eliminate Sulawesi as point of origin? I admire that expertise, and would like to be further enlightened on this point, if you please.

2 According to the antique dealer from whom I got this keris, the mendak is gold. He has done a test on it's mark with concentrated nitric acid and he assured me of this fact. He is a cousin, and we are on very good, amicable terms. Does this fact (if true) strike you as perhaps improbable? IOW, does the gold fit in with the class of this keris?

3 Having read what was said about the pamor, I conclude I am correct when I make it to be mlumah, and that the three patterns mentioned all fall under mlumah?

4 Of course the pattern on the ganja is miring (or so I think). If so, would that be adeg?

5 Coming to the 7 luk blade, is there any cultural distinction in terms of meaning between luk 3, 5 and 7? I know that wave counts above 7 are seen as special. Does 3, 5 and 7 each have different significance?

I appreciate your patience with my many questions!
Regards
Johan

Jean · 16th October 2016, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johan van Zyl

the blade length is 12.3 inches, that's 31.2 cm.

1 How is it that this particular blade can have the necessary visible features that enable experienced students of the keris to be able to eliminate Sulawesi as point of origin? I admire that expertise, and would like to be further enlightened on this point, if you please.

3 Having read what was said about the pamor, I conclude I am correct when I make it to be mlumah, and that the three patterns mentioned all fall under mlumah?

4 Of course the pattern on the ganja is miring (or so I think). If so, would that be adeg?

Hello Johan,
Considering the short size of the blade (31 cm long), the shape of the gandar (wide and not narrowing towards the tip), the compact shape of the hilt, and the style of pendokok, it is more likely that it originates from Riau than Sulawesi. It would have been useful to see the whole scabbard for giving a more accurate opinion.
Yes, the blade pamor type is mlumah, for the ganja it appears as miring but probably because the cut piece from the iron/pamor bar used for making it is turned 90° as compared to the blade so the pamor lines appear perpendicular to the surface (Alan, please confirm if this is correct).
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 16th October 2016, 09:20 PM

Yes Jean, the gonjo has been made in probably the most usual way, by cutting a piece of the pamor material from the forging, before the core was welded in. But we cannot call that pamor in the gonjo miring, or adeg, its still mlumah pamor, its just that we are looking at it side on, it was not manipulated in the forge.

Johan van Zyl · 17th October 2016, 06:11 AM

Thanks Jean, for your reply, and Alan's helpful comment. Let me get in here with my immediate reply while I await more comment on my other questions outstanding:

This Riau thing that cropped up unexpectedly, caused me some confusion as I started reading up about it. As I understand it (imperfectly it seems), the Bugis is a people, not a place. Seems the Bugis inhabited the southern part of Sulawesi originally and produced the Bugis kerisses of Sulawesi. Then sections of them migrated to other parts of Indonesia but continued to craft kerisses, like for example on the islands of Riau. These are Bugis kerisses, but not of Sulawesi. Now there are confusing statements from various internet sites that read: "...southern Sumatra regions of Bugis..." as if Bugis is a geographical region. Now I am wondering, perhaps it IS a region?
Johan

David · 17th October 2016, 07:18 AM

Definitely a people Johan, not a region. I believe that when you encounter something like "...southern Sumatra regions of Bugis..." they are really simply referring to Bugis communities in southern Sumatra. The Bugis were a seafaring people and they got around and re-settled in many areas of Indonesia and Malaysia.

Johan van Zyl · 17th October 2016, 03:38 PM

Thanks, David, that puts me at ease. While I await some further kind inputs to the remaining questions I asked in the post above, let me ramble on. In my specific social community I am unfortunately isolated with regard to my interests. The result is that my friends (bless their arthritic joints) in my circle constantly have to submit to my stories and look at pictures of kerisses. At least they seem to share my enthusiasm, and I have not had the feeling they are merely humouring me.

My 81-year-old sister, who lives with my wife and I, regularly hobbles into my museum-like man-cave and demands updates on the newest information on the Bugis keris as it accumulates! That's cool.
Cheers
Johan

Rick · 17th October 2016, 05:53 PM

Welcome to our little asylum Johan.

You are not alone; all my friends have a hard time understanding my passion also; and I think that outside of the keris bearing societies many of our contemporaries scratch their heads and wonder about us.

Arms collecting seems to be looked at as rather un-PC these days.

Do you have any import restrictions on edged weapons in SA?

16th October 2016, 11:44 AM	#1
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	Gustav, Kai & Alan have come in : I thank you also. All your judgements are of great importance to me, as I have many aspects of the keris to learn. Which saddens me that Alan has opted to withhold comment, but of course I need to respect that also, and I do. Kai, the blade length is 12.3 inches, that's 31.2 cm. I now have quite a few facts on the table pertaining to this keris, thanks to you all, and this prompts questions in my mind: 1 How is it that this particular blade can have the necessary visible features that enable experienced students of the keris to be able to eliminate Sulawesi as point of origin? I admire that expertise, and would like to be further enlightened on this point, if you please. 2 According to the antique dealer from whom I got this keris, the mendak is gold. He has done a test on it's mark with concentrated nitric acid and he assured me of this fact. He is a cousin, and we are on very good, amicable terms. Does this fact (if true) strike you as perhaps improbable? IOW, does the gold fit in with the class of this keris? 3 Having read what was said about the pamor, I conclude I am correct when I make it to be mlumah, and that the three patterns mentioned all fall under mlumah? 4 Of course the pattern on the ganja is miring (or so I think). If so, would that be adeg? 5 Coming to the 7 luk blade, is there any cultural distinction in terms of meaning between luk 3, 5 and 7? I know that wave counts above 7 are seen as special. Does 3, 5 and 7 each have different significance? I appreciate your patience with my many questions! Regards Johan Last edited by Johan van Zyl; 16th October 2016 at 12:16 PM.

16th October 2016, 09:20 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Yes Jean, the gonjo has been made in probably the most usual way, by cutting a piece of the pamor material from the forging, before the core was welded in. But we cannot call that pamor in the gonjo miring, or adeg, its still mlumah pamor, its just that we are looking at it side on, it was not manipulated in the forge.

17th October 2016, 06:11 AM	#4
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	Thanks Jean, for your reply, and Alan's helpful comment. Let me get in here with my immediate reply while I await more comment on my other questions outstanding: This Riau thing that cropped up unexpectedly, caused me some confusion as I started reading up about it. As I understand it (imperfectly it seems), the Bugis is a people, not a place. Seems the Bugis inhabited the southern part of Sulawesi originally and produced the Bugis kerisses of Sulawesi. Then sections of them migrated to other parts of Indonesia but continued to craft kerisses, like for example on the islands of Riau. These are Bugis kerisses, but not of Sulawesi. Now there are confusing statements from various internet sites that read: "...southern Sumatra regions of Bugis..." as if Bugis is a geographical region. Now I am wondering, perhaps it IS a region? Johan

17th October 2016, 07:18 AM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Definitely a people Johan, not a region. I believe that when you encounter something like "...southern Sumatra regions of Bugis..." they are really simply referring to Bugis communities in southern Sumatra. The Bugis were a seafaring people and they got around and re-settled in many areas of Indonesia and Malaysia.

17th October 2016, 03:38 PM	#6
Johan van Zyl Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: I live in Gordon's Bay, a village in the Western Cape Province in South Africa. Posts: 126	Thanks, David, that puts me at ease. While I await some further kind inputs to the remaining questions I asked in the post above, let me ramble on. In my specific social community I am unfortunately isolated with regard to my interests. The result is that my friends (bless their arthritic joints) in my circle constantly have to submit to my stories and look at pictures of kerisses. At least they seem to share my enthusiasm, and I have not had the feeling they are merely humouring me. My 81-year-old sister, who lives with my wife and I, regularly hobbles into my museum-like man-cave and demands updates on the newest information on the Bugis keris as it accumulates! That's cool. Cheers Johan

17th October 2016, 05:53 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Welcome to our little asylum Johan. You are not alone; all my friends have a hard time understanding my passion also; and I think that outside of the keris bearing societies many of our contemporaries scratch their heads and wonder about us. Arms collecting seems to be looked at as rather un-PC these days. Do you have any import restrictions on edged weapons in SA?