A tiller/stick cannon for comments

fernando · 11th October 2016, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiridonov

Thank You! Very interesting barrel! I will be very interesting to make x-ray photo

I am trying to find someone who does this kind of work, Alexander, but i had no results yet.
On the other hand, i measured the interior of the barrel and came to the conclusion that whatever is inside stays within one centimeter from the touch hole ... hardly enough length to contain the load of gunpowder and the projectile.

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fernando · 18th October 2016, 07:23 PM

X-ray done.
Contrary to my expectations, it was not so difficult to find a place to do it and, also confirming my other expectations, i find it hard to interpreter the images.
I was very well atended by the specialists (from the industrial trade), as they became very interested and wished to help me analize the barrel and the chamber. Besides the X-ray equipment, a boroscope was also used, but without effective results, as its camera was a lateral one and could not visualize frontwards. A pity that the endoscope was out for exterior works and they could not use it.
In any case, one could assume that this gun is not loaded. What i think is visible is a solid section in the core of the chamber, which could well be a sort of plug, even an extension projected from the socket. I wouldn't know how to put this in the propper terms; maybe some of you guys (Alexander?) understand what i am saying or, even better, has the correct idea of what these images represent.
It also looks, at least in my imagination, that the barrel tube was forged in the winding system.
What do you Gentlemen say about this ?

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Andi · 18th October 2016, 08:32 PM

Wow Fernando! Congratulations to this excellent images. Great!
Unfortunately such images are too rare in the scientific literature on early guns.

I would agree to you that the barrel was forged and welded of a spiral type metal rod - it looks quite obvious.

Spiridonov · 19th October 2016, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

X-ray done.

Hello, Dear Fernando. Thank You very much for the work done. This result show us how important is to do X-rays of 14th and 15th centuries barrels, as they have a fairly complex structure. Unfortunately, we can see this kind of work very rare. It is obvious that the barrel is spiral welded. But it's not the most interesting. The most interesting thing is that the shank of socket is secured not only by press-fitting in the channel of barrel, as due to the fact that between the socket and the shank is a tapered neck. it appears that the shank is held by the sleeve (looks like cup with hole in bottom) into the breech, as the diameter of the holes in the sleeve is less than the diameter of the shank. And it keeps the clutch due to the fact that it's a taper extending from the front end to the rear. I think that way of assemble was such that the shank of the socket inserted into rear end the barrel, then the breech sleeve put on the rear end of the barrel, than sleeve was rolling around the tapered neck of the shank with by a hammer. Do you have any pictures with higher resolution and a more detailed x-ray of the front of the barrel? If so, could you throw on my e-mail ( Spiridonov12@yandex.ru )
With the best regards, Alexander.

fernando · 20th October 2016, 06:33 PM

What a perfect and comprehensive interpretation of the subject, Alexander. The drawing shows a lot of knowledge and speaks for itself. Thank you for having posted it. I have already emailed you the original high resolution pictures. The part of the barrel mouth is not so much complated as i told the X-ray operators to focus more on the breech section.
Once more thank you so much for the lecture.

Shakethetrees · 20th October 2016, 09:47 PM

A wonderful thread! Matchlock would be weighing in I'm sure.

To see the x ray scan that leaves a clear image of the hidden construction details is something we only dreamed of just a few years ago.

Thanks!

fernando · 21st October 2016, 11:34 AM

Amen to that ... both sentences

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Marcus den toom · 21st October 2016, 12:20 PM

Thank you very much Nando for these X rays of the Tillered hand cannon. It confirms the idea i had about these guns that they are of wound band iron. Combined with the reeinforcing iron bands this could be one of the earliest tiller guns in the world. Wound iron barrels where one of the first type (together with cast brass) and would be the main way to go up to the early 15th century. The only thing withholding me from dating it to the early 15th century for sure is the flared muzzle ring. From the top of my head these where in fashion from about 1430s upward to the 1460s..

The construction of the breech reminds me of some of my tiller hand cannons as well as the montjuic hand cannons, both in Michael's collection and mine. They could be related?

18th October 2016, 07:23 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	X-ray done. Contrary to my expectations, it was not so difficult to find a place to do it and, also confirming my other expectations, i find it hard to interpreter the images. I was very well atended by the specialists (from the industrial trade), as they became very interested and wished to help me analize the barrel and the chamber. Besides the X-ray equipment, a boroscope was also used, but without effective results, as its camera was a lateral one and could not visualize frontwards. A pity that the endoscope was out for exterior works and they could not use it. In any case, one could assume that this gun is not loaded. What i think is visible is a solid section in the core of the chamber, which could well be a sort of plug, even an extension projected from the socket. I wouldn't know how to put this in the propper terms; maybe some of you guys (Alexander?) understand what i am saying or, even better, has the correct idea of what these images represent. It also looks, at least in my imagination, that the barrel tube was forged in the winding system. What do you Gentlemen say about this ? . Attached Images

18th October 2016, 08:32 PM	#3
Andi Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Halstenbek, Germany Posts: 203	Wow Fernando! Congratulations to this excellent images. Great! Unfortunately such images are too rare in the scientific literature on early guns. I would agree to you that the barrel was forged and welded of a spiral type metal rod - it looks quite obvious.

20th October 2016, 06:33 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	What a perfect and comprehensive interpretation of the subject, Alexander. The drawing shows a lot of knowledge and speaks for itself. Thank you for having posted it. I have already emailed you the original high resolution pictures. The part of the barrel mouth is not so much complated as i told the X-ray operators to focus more on the breech section. Once more thank you so much for the lecture.

20th October 2016, 09:47 PM	#6
Shakethetrees Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisiana Posts: 363	A wonderful thread! Matchlock would be weighing in I'm sure. To see the x ray scan that leaves a clear image of the hidden construction details is something we only dreamed of just a few years ago. Thanks!

21st October 2016, 11:34 AM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Amen to that ... both sentences .

21st October 2016, 12:20 PM	#8
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 535	Thank you very much Nando for these X rays of the Tillered hand cannon. It confirms the idea i had about these guns that they are of wound band iron. Combined with the reeinforcing iron bands this could be one of the earliest tiller guns in the world. Wound iron barrels where one of the first type (together with cast brass) and would be the main way to go up to the early 15th century. The only thing withholding me from dating it to the early 15th century for sure is the flared muzzle ring. From the top of my head these where in fashion from about 1430s upward to the 1460s.. The construction of the breech reminds me of some of my tiller hand cannons as well as the montjuic hand cannons, both in Michael's collection and mine. They could be related?