THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MOROCCAN AND A ZANZIBARI NIMCHA.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

For a quick warm up...what ARE THESE ? MASTERCLASS WIZARD STANDARD ONE MINUTE... NORMAL MEMBERS 5 MINUTES.

[kronckew]

swords

[VANDOO]

I THINK OF THE LONG NIMCHA AS SWORDS TO BE USED ON HORSEBACK PRIMARILY BUT OF COURSE THEY CAN BE USED ON FOOT OR ON SHIPS AS WELL. ALL EXAMPLES PICTURED ABOVE FIT THE HORSEMAN'S SWORD TYPE
EXCEPT THE LAST PICTURE. IT IS WHAT IS REFERRED TO AS A WEDDING NIMCHA AND IS LARGELY USED AT MARRIAGE CEREMONIES TODAY AND IS DAGGER TO SHORT SWORD IN SIZE. ALL THE ONES I HAVE SEEN HAVE BEEN FAIRLY RECENT SAY WW1 TO PRESENT BUT OLDER FORMS MAY HAVE BEEN WEAPONS MOST I HAVE SEEN WERE ATTRIBUTED TO ALGERIA BUT LIKELY TO BE FOUND IN SURROUNDING COUNTRIES.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

I THINK OF THE LONG NIMCHA AS SWORDS TO BE USED ON HORSEBACK PRIMARILY BUT OF COURSE THEY CAN BE USED ON FOOT OR ON SHIPS AS WELL. ALL EXAMPLES PICTURED ABOVE FIT THE HORSEMAN'S SWORD TYPE
EXCEPT THE LAST PICTURE. IT IS WHAT IS REFERRED TO AS A WEDDING NIMCHA AND IS LARGELY USED AT MARRIAGE CEREMONIES TODAY AND IS DAGGER TO SHORT SWORD IN SIZE. ALL THE ONES I HAVE SEEN HAVE BEEN FAIRLY RECENT SAY WW1 TO PRESENT BUT OLDER FORMS MAY HAVE BEEN WEAPONS MOST I HAVE SEEN WERE ATTRIBUTED TO ALGERIA BUT LIKELY TO BE FOUND IN SURROUNDING COUNTRIES.

Good point VANDOO ~ It is apparent that two blade length styles sub divide the Magrebi form and that ships short blades and long mounted cavalry are there. I have seen artwork of these long blades on warriors on horseback and camel...It is a fact that Magreb means the cluster of countries like Morocco and Algeria where these forms are found. The former preferred by Corsairs
(Corsairs= Moriscos after feeing from Spain in the early 1600s. )

(These so called wedding daggers are interesting also known as Fleessa or Algerian Nimcha Daggers..Personally I also see them as somewhat ineffective being rather spindley and weak in the quillon region..Whilst the hilts follow a Nimcha style I cannot be sure of their original provenance...perhaps more comments can be forthcoming from others as it looks like a latecomer to the style.)

Below a further look at artwork down the ages at some different Magrebi Nimcha blade-lengths... As I see it there are three Magrebi types viz;

1.The huge meaty Embassadorial form.
2.The Short Corsair form.
3.The Long Cavalry form...

Comments please...?

[VANDOO]

I MAY BE REACHING A BIT FAR HERE BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THE LONG CURVED SWORDS EVOLVED IN COUNTRIES AND SOCIETY'S WHERE HORSES WERE USED FOR WAR. TO SHOW YOU WERE A SUCCESSFUL , POWERFUL MAN YOU NEEDED MANY THINGS. SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT WERE A GOOD WAR HORSE, GOOD WEAPONS, GOOD CLOTHES AND PERHAPS ARMOR AND OF COURSE A WELL FITTED OUT GUARD OR ARMY. MUCH ATTENTION HAS ALWAYS BEEN PAID TO ESTABLISHING THIS IMAGE AND IT IS NECESSARY FOR A LEADER TO HAVE THESE THINGS TO LEAD MAKE ALLIES AND INTIMIDATE ENEMY'S. THIS HAS LED TO THE BREEDING OF THE ARABIAN HORSES, BEAUTIFUL WORKMANSHIP ON SADDLES, WEAPONS, CLOTHES AND ART. FIGHTING FROM HORSEBACK MADE A LONGER SWORD WITH A CURVE PRACTICAL AS THE CURVE ALLOWED A DRAW CUT FROM ABOVE ON HORSE BACK RATHER THAN A CHOP OR THRUST. THE CURVED BLADE BOTH INSIDE CURVE AS IN THE KOPESH AND OUTSIDE IN SAIF, IS FOUND ON MANY OTHER SWORDS HAVING NO CONNECTION TO HORSEMEN. BUT I WONDER WHERE AND WHY THE OUTSIDE CURVE EVOLVED ORIGINALLY AS IT IS IDEAL FOR SLICING DOWNWARD AT SPEED AS ON HORSEBACK.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

I MAY BE REACHING A BIT FAR HERE BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THE LONG CURVED SWORDS EVOLVED IN COUNTRIES AND SOCIETY'S WHERE HORSES WERE USED FOR WAR. TO SHOW YOU WERE A SUCCESSFUL , POWERFUL MAN YOU NEEDED MANY THINGS. SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT WERE A GOOD WAR HORSE, GOOD WEAPONS, GOOD CLOTHES AND PERHAPS ARMOR AND OF COURSE A WELL FITTED OUT GUARD OR ARMY. MUCH ATTENTION HAS ALWAYS BEEN PAID TO ESTABLISHING THIS IMAGE AND IT IS NECESSARY FOR A LEADER TO HAVE THESE THINGS TO LEAD MAKE ALLIES AND INTIMIDATE ENEMY'S. THIS HAS LED TO THE BREEDING OF THE ARABIAN HORSES, BEAUTIFUL WORKMANSHIP ON SADDLES, WEAPONS, CLOTHES AND ART. FIGHTING FROM HORSEBACK MADE A LONGER SWORD WITH A CURVE PRACTICAL AS THE CURVE ALLOWED A DRAW CUT FROM ABOVE ON HORSE BACK RATHER THAN A CHOP OR THRUST. THE CURVED BLADE BOTH INSIDE CURVE AS IN THE KOPESH AND OUTSIDE IN SAIF, IS FOUND ON MANY OTHER SWORDS HAVING NO CONNECTION TO HORSEMEN. BUT I WONDER WHERE AND WHY THE OUTSIDE CURVE EVOLVED ORIGINALLY AS IT IS IDEAL FOR SLICING DOWNWARD AT SPEED AS ON HORSEBACK.

Certainly this is true of Morocco regarding horses ...and there's a great addition to the subject in Saddles and Horses in the region. I did a thread on Camels previously and noted how much the Horse held sway as an important combat vehicle up til even recently... and extensively in WW1 and before.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

"And now for something completely different" ...

What is this?

It took me hours to arrive at a half believable post on how this man was interned in the New Caledonian Islands off North East Australia by the French from Anjoun in the Grand Comoros Islands off the South East coast of Africa. ....

From gravure tirée de l'Illustration, 1891,
le sultan Said Athmann, chef des rebelles d'Anjoun,
interné en Nouvelle-Calédonie.

But anyway...Grainy photo...Easy Question... What is the sword?