THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MOROCCAN AND A ZANZIBARI NIMCHA.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 30th September 2016, 12:55 PM

I cross reference a post here as; NIMCHA ... The Word.
From
Salaams Ariel... You are correct in several of your pointers to the peculiar name Nimcha apparently applied to the sword of Morocco and its sister from Zanzibar. The name used by locals in both regions is Sayf/Saif/Seyf. There are many questions or possibilities as to how the term Nimcha entered the equation not least that an enterprising sword collector "expert" gave the name and it stuck! because it "looked" the same.

Look at the previous post where it can be seen that apart from "a similar" hand grip the entire sword arrangement in both cases is chalk and cheese!
Regarding the Name Nimcha it is worth listing the possible reasons all of which hold water...for the Name; Nimcha;

1. Nim means half in Persian and Baluch. The connotation attached to the sword could mean half sword as applied also to half convert...meaning those half converts to Islam working among the Baluch on the Zanj in other words "the sword of the half converts".

2. The word Nimcha may mean blink of an eye to Moroccan people. ( This may be regional/ colloquial since they say blink of your eye in Morocco like this; ghamad ainak. )

3a. We know that military dress in the sub continent remained almost ancient until recently thus tie ups between apparel and weapons is common(and must be of antiquity) as per Oliver Pinchot's revelation about Salawar and the Pantaloon style of dress known in those regions and the dagger/sword. The sword being also wide at the throat and narrow at the tip...like the pants!

3b. In this case in referring to Nimcha, it is the waistcoat of Persian, Baluch and central Asian form for men... Uzbekistan has the word Nimcha meaning waistcoat...Half Jacket. The waistcoat worn by Baluchi Mercenaries may be a reference to those worn on the Zanj ~ Mercenaries of the Omani Sultans especially Saaid bin Sultan before and after his death in 1856. (ruled 1804 - 1856) In this case Nimcha being the sword worn by the Half Jackets...Nimcha.

4. The great explorers technically at least, may have transmitted the word from Zanzibar/Zanj to Central Africa since they accompanied Tipu Tib the great slave captain and explorers Burton and Speke thus linking into trans Saharan trade routes (Ivory/ Slaves/ Rhino) was likely.

5. Last but not least the whats in a word phenomena is entirely plausible though I admire the potential in the clothing link after all; naming parts or weapons after clothes also occurred with the hilt of the great Moroccan dagger One of the Khoumiya which took its name from A French Policemans Hat!! and there are many more.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 30th September 2016, 05:09 PM

Lets see who can nail this one first ...Full marks for a complete assessment...

additional marks if you put in a bibliography from forum !!! 3 references will suffice !!!

ariel · 30th September 2016, 06:08 PM

You want a "complete assessment"?
A long version or a short one?
OK, here is the long one :

" This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!! "

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 30th September 2016, 06:56 PM

Completely correct Ariel. No Points though; you copied it!...

VANDOO · 2nd October 2016, 05:53 AM

I AM ENJOYING THIS POST AS IT MAKES A GOOD REFERENCE FOR THIS TYPE OF SWORD. PERHAPS NOT ALL QUESTIONS CAN BE ANSWERED BUT MANY FACTS, OLD ARTICLES AND REFRENCES, THOUGHTS AND EXAMPLES ARE GATHERED HERE FOR EASIER ACCESS. AFTER ALL THAT IS BASICALLY ALL A REFERENCE IS. AS TO THE LAST ITEM THOUGH THERE IS LITTLE REMAINING OF THE SWORD AND ITS GLORY DAYS ARE LONG OVER. FOR A POOR MAN A LITTLE GLUE OR DUCT TAPE AND THIS PARROT THOUGH NO LONGER BEAUTIFUL COULD STILL PECK.

kronckew · 2nd October 2016, 10:08 AM

'tis but a scratch,
it's just a flesh wound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG1P8MQS1cU

a little bondo, sanding, polishing, and it's back guarding the bridge. gaffer (duck) tape works well with bondo.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 2nd October 2016, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

I AM ENJOYING THIS POST AS IT MAKES A GOOD REFERENCE FOR THIS TYPE OF SWORD. PERHAPS NOT ALL QUESTIONS CAN BE ANSWERED BUT MANY FACTS, OLD ARTICLES AND REFRENCES, THOUGHTS AND EXAMPLES ARE GATHERED HERE FOR EASIER ACCESS. AFTER ALL THAT IS BASICALLY ALL A REFERENCE IS. AS TO THE LAST ITEM THOUGH THERE IS LITTLE REMAINING OF THE SWORD AND ITS GLORY DAYS ARE LONG OVER. FOR A POOR MAN A LITTLE GLUE OR DUCT TAPE AND THIS PARROT THOUGH NO LONGER BEAUTIFUL COULD STILL PECK.

THANK YOU VANDOO, I am glad you like the thread and the twists and turns not least in the Nimcha name conundrum. Absolutely agreed on all the questions not yet answered which perhaps underlines the detective work still to be completed...however, I hope that this foundation thread and others at Library can assist in uncovering more as we roll forward. Regards Ibrahiim.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 2nd October 2016, 06:06 PM

Hello all. OK ... its a wreck... I know that and chose it for that reason... Now can anyone nail its origin ? For them as can do it with your eyes shut an extra mark, however, here is an opportunity for those with a little less knowledge to put this one away...

30th September 2016, 12:55 PM	#1
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	I cross reference a post here as; NIMCHA ... The Word. From Salaams Ariel... You are correct in several of your pointers to the peculiar name Nimcha apparently applied to the sword of Morocco and its sister from Zanzibar. The name used by locals in both regions is Sayf/Saif/Seyf. There are many questions or possibilities as to how the term Nimcha entered the equation not least that an enterprising sword collector "expert" gave the name and it stuck! because it "looked" the same. Look at the previous post where it can be seen that apart from "a similar" hand grip the entire sword arrangement in both cases is chalk and cheese! Regarding the Name Nimcha it is worth listing the possible reasons all of which hold water...for the Name; Nimcha; 1. Nim means half in Persian and Baluch. The connotation attached to the sword could mean half sword as applied also to half convert...meaning those half converts to Islam working among the Baluch on the Zanj in other words "the sword of the half converts". 2. The word Nimcha may mean blink of an eye to Moroccan people. ( This may be regional/ colloquial since they say blink of your eye in Morocco like this; ghamad ainak. ) 3a. We know that military dress in the sub continent remained almost ancient until recently thus tie ups between apparel and weapons is common(and must be of antiquity) as per Oliver Pinchot's revelation about Salawar and the Pantaloon style of dress known in those regions and the dagger/sword. The sword being also wide at the throat and narrow at the tip...like the pants! 3b. In this case in referring to Nimcha, it is the waistcoat of Persian, Baluch and central Asian form for men... Uzbekistan has the word Nimcha meaning waistcoat...Half Jacket. The waistcoat worn by Baluchi Mercenaries may be a reference to those worn on the Zanj ~ Mercenaries of the Omani Sultans especially Saaid bin Sultan before and after his death in 1856. (ruled 1804 - 1856) In this case Nimcha being the sword worn by the Half Jackets...Nimcha. 4. The great explorers technically at least, may have transmitted the word from Zanzibar/Zanj to Central Africa since they accompanied Tipu Tib the great slave captain and explorers Burton and Speke thus linking into trans Saharan trade routes (Ivory/ Slaves/ Rhino) was likely. 5. Last but not least the whats in a word phenomena is entirely plausible though I admire the potential in the clothing link after all; naming parts or weapons after clothes also occurred with the hilt of the great Moroccan dagger One of the Khoumiya which took its name from A French Policemans Hat!! and there are many more. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 30th September 2016 at 01:05 PM.

30th September 2016, 05:09 PM	#2
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Lets see who can nail this one first ...Full marks for a complete assessment... additional marks if you put in a bibliography from forum !!! 3 references will suffice !!! Attached Images

30th September 2016, 06:08 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	You want a "complete assessment"? A long version or a short one? OK, here is the long one : " This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!! "

30th September 2016, 06:56 PM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Completely correct Ariel. No Points though; you copied it!...

2nd October 2016, 05:53 AM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I AM ENJOYING THIS POST AS IT MAKES A GOOD REFERENCE FOR THIS TYPE OF SWORD. PERHAPS NOT ALL QUESTIONS CAN BE ANSWERED BUT MANY FACTS, OLD ARTICLES AND REFRENCES, THOUGHTS AND EXAMPLES ARE GATHERED HERE FOR EASIER ACCESS. AFTER ALL THAT IS BASICALLY ALL A REFERENCE IS. AS TO THE LAST ITEM THOUGH THERE IS LITTLE REMAINING OF THE SWORD AND ITS GLORY DAYS ARE LONG OVER. FOR A POOR MAN A LITTLE GLUE OR DUCT TAPE AND THIS PARROT THOUGH NO LONGER BEAUTIFUL COULD STILL PECK.

2nd October 2016, 10:08 AM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	'tis but a scratch, it's just a flesh wound. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG1P8MQS1cU a little bondo, sanding, polishing, and it's back guarding the bridge. gaffer (duck) tape works well with bondo.

2nd October 2016, 06:06 PM	#8
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Hello all. OK ... its a wreck... I know that and chose it for that reason... Now can anyone nail its origin ? For them as can do it with your eyes shut an extra mark, however, here is an opportunity for those with a little less knowledge to put this one away...