MOST DESIRED WAR CLUBS MID AND SOUTH AMERICA

Tim Simmons · 9th September 2016, 04:37 PM

Like those very much. Imagine the fun try to remove the broken spine from your flesh, if you survived the fight that is.

VANDOO · 11th September 2016, 08:11 PM

THE CLOSEST I COULD COME TO THE DARK, HEAVY, REDDISH HARDWOOD USED IN MANY AMAZONIAN CLUBS IS CALLED PAU-FERRO OR MORADO. IT DOES HAVE VARIATION IN COLOR MOSTLY DUE TO HOW FRESH IT IS AND VARIOUS AMOUNTS OF PATINA BUT NO DOUBT VARIES FROM TREE TO TREE AND BOARD TO BOARD. IF WE CAN COME UP WITH A CLEAR IDENTIFICATION OF THE WOOD IT WILL ELIMINATE MISTAKES OF CLUB IDENTIFICATION BETWEEN SOUTH PACIFIC, AFRICAN AND SOUTH AMERICAN ITEMS.
#8. # 9, #10 ABOVE POST ,MY LARGE HEAVY CLUB APPEARS TO BE PAU WOOD SO I THINK ITS SOUTH AMERICAN.
#11 & #12 . ABOVE POST. TIM'S EXAMPLE HAS LINES SIMILAR TO MINE AND IF IT IS PAU WOOD IS LIKELY SOUTH AMERICAN AS WELL. I HAVE NOT HANDLED IT SO CAN'T MAKE FURTHER GUESSES.

I WILL PICTURE ANOTHER OF TIM'S CLUBS THAT HAS SIMILAR DESIGNS FOR COMPARISON.

PICTURES #1. TWO AMAZON NECKLACES ONE WITH A CAYMAN HEAD AND ANOTHER WITH TWO CATFISH SPINES.
#2. & #3. TIM'S CLUB MAY BE PAU WOOD AND HAS INTERESTING DESIGNS. BUT HAS WHITE INLAY AND WHAT LOOKS LIKE YELLOW ORCHID FIBER WRAP WHICH IS MORE SOUTH PACIFIC ISLANDS ESPECIALLY AROUND NEW GUINEA.
UNFORTUNATELY I CAN ONLY GUESS AS I AM NO EXPERT ON EXOTIC WOOD AND HAVE ONLY PICTURES CONJECTURE AND GUESSES TO GO ON THE OTHER CLUBS.

#4., #5., & #6. A WELL CARVED MEXICAN FOLK ART CLUB BASED ON AN OLD CLUB FORM ( SEE THE PICTURE OF THE PLAIN BACK). CIRCA EARLY 1950'S, DOESN'T FIT ANYWHERE ELSE SO I PUT IT HERE

THERE IS A LOT OF INTEREST IN THE MACUAHUCTL A.K.A. MAQUAHUCTL A FORM OR WOODEN CLUB WITH OBSIDIAN BLADES INSET ALONG THE EDGES FORMING A TWO EDGED WEAPON. THEY ARE THOUGHT TO HAVE BEEN AROUND 3 FEET LONG AND THEIR USE WAS THOUGHT TO BE WIDESPREAD IN CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA. THERE IS ONLY A DRAWING OF ONE ORIGINAL CLUB SURVIVING AS THE CLUB WAS DESTROYED BY FIRE IN 1884. IT WAS IN THE COLLECTION OF THE ROYAL MUSEUM IN MADRID SPAIN. THE DRAWING OF THE CLUB WAS DONE IN THE 19TH. CENTURY BY ACHILLE JUBINAL.
#4. JUBINAL' S DRAWING. THE CLUB WAS 84 CM. LONG, THE CUTTING EDGE 57 CM. AND THE HANDLE 26 CM. BLADES WERE GLUED IN A GROVE DOWN THE SIDES WITH NATURAL ADHESIVE.
THE ONLY OTHER DRAWINGS ARE THE MANY ON POTTERY AND STONE CARVINGS OF WARS AND WARRIORS. THERE ARE MANY INTERESTING DRAWINGS BEING MADE AS WELL AS MANY REPLICAS OF THE MACUAHUCTL BOTH HOLDING TO OLD FORMS OR TO FANTASY AND IMAGINATION.
#5., #6., #7., #8. & #9. DRAWINGS OF VARIOUS WARRIORS IN FULL GEAR WITH MACUAHUCTL
#10. A REPLICA OF A SHIELD AND MACUAHUCTL
#11. & #12. REPLICA 39 INCHES LONG, AZTEC DESIGNS

VANDOO · 11th September 2016, 09:48 PM

VARIOUS EXAMPLES OF MODERN MACUAHUCTL.
#1. CEREMONIAL UNUSUAL FORM OF BLADES, PAU WOOD, BLACK OBSIDIAN
#2. AZTEC WITH SKULL DECORATION
#4., TWO MOUNTED CROSSED
#3., #5 & #6. CENTRAL MEXICO 36 IN. LONG,BOCOTE WOOD AND MAHOGANY OBSIDIAN BLADES AN ESPECIALLY ATTRACTIVE EXAMPLE.
#7 THRU #10 VARIOUS NICE REPLICAS
#11. A SAWFISH FORM REPLICA, WOOD AND BONE
#12. REPLICA WITH NICE SNAKE FORM DESIGN

VANDOO · 11th September 2016, 10:32 PM

THE LAST OF THE MAQUAHUCTLS

#1. A VERY SPIKEY MODERN FORM
#2. & #3. A FORM OF SPEAR/CLUB WITH OBSIDIAN BLADES
#4.ONE WITH COPPER BLADES NONE WERE KNOWN, BUT COPPER WAS USED FOR JEWELRY AND OTHER USES
#5.THIS HAS FLINT KNIVES FORMING A LONG BLADE COULD BE A LONG KNIFE FOR BUTCHERING LARGE ANIMALS A CEREMONIAL FORM OR A WEAPON OR JUST FANTASY. NOT A MACUAHUCTL BUT SIMILAR AND THEY COULD HAVE BEEN MADE

Tim Simmons · 12th September 2016, 04:46 PM

sadly I did not record the source of this photo

VANDOO · 12th September 2016, 05:26 PM

WOW! THAT'S QUITE A SELECTION AND SEVERAL FORMS I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH. PERHAPS THE COLLECTOR WILL SEE IT AND PROVIDE US WITH SOME INFORMATION. UNTIL THEN I WILL JUST MUDDLE ALONG WITH THIS REFERENCE AS BEST AS I CAN.

FILL FREE TO ADD ANYTHING YOU HAVE ALONG THE WAY.

VANDOO · 12th September 2016, 06:04 PM

SHIPIBO-CONIBO TRIBE CLUBS. IN THE PAST THEY WERE TWO RELATED TRIBES THE SHIPIBO LIVING IN THE RAIN FOREST AND HUNTING AND THE CONIBO LIVING NEAR WATER AND FISHING. THE TWO TRIBES ARE COMBINED TODAY AND KNOWN BY BOTH NAMES. THERE IS A LARGE NUMBER AROUND IQUITOS PERU AND ALONG THE UCAYALI RIVER. SOME GROUPS HAVE RANGED FROM BRAZIL TO ECUADOR AS WELL. THE WOMEN DO THE COMPLICATED DESIGNS WHICH REPRESENT SEVERAL BASIC PATTERNS THE SPIRIT OF THE RAIN FOREST, GREAT SERPENT (ANACONDA)AND SPIRITUAL MATTERS. THE DESIGNS ARE GEOMETRIC BUT CAN BE CHANTED OR WHISTLED AS MUSIC AS WELL. THE CLUBS OFTEN HAVE SUCH A DESIGN ON THE BLADE. I READ THAT THE MAN CHOOSES THE DESIGN HE WANTS AND THE WOMEN PUT THE DESIGN ON THE CLUB. A INTERESTING TRIBE WITH A LONG HISTORY.
#1. THRU #5. A OLD SHIPIBO CLUB GOOD HEAVY HARD WOOD WITH NO DESIGN ON BLADE.
#6. & #7. CIRCA 1960, SHIPIBO/ CLUB WITH DESIGNS ON BOTH SIDES OF BLADE. 45.5 INCHES LONG, 5.5 IN. WIDE AT TIP. UCAYALI RIVER AREA PERU. LIGHT WEIGHT SOFT WOOD NATURAL FIBER AND PIGMENTS.
#8., #9. & #10. SMALLER MORE MODERN FORM SHIPIBO CLUB. 43 CM. X 11 CM. WITH COLORFUL CORD WRAP CIRCA 1970 SAID TO BE FROM GUYANA VERY WELL MADE.
#11. SHIPIBO CLUB CIRCA 1970 ,PERU 21 INCH. LONG
#12. SHIPIBO MEN IN TRADITIONAL CEREMONIAL ATTIRE WITH SMALLER CLUBS.

9th September 2016, 04:37 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Like those very much. Imagine the fun try to remove the broken spine from your flesh, if you survived the fight that is.

11th September 2016, 08:11 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE CLOSEST I COULD COME TO THE DARK, HEAVY, REDDISH HARDWOOD USED IN MANY AMAZONIAN CLUBS IS CALLED PAU-FERRO OR MORADO. IT DOES HAVE VARIATION IN COLOR MOSTLY DUE TO HOW FRESH IT IS AND VARIOUS AMOUNTS OF PATINA BUT NO DOUBT VARIES FROM TREE TO TREE AND BOARD TO BOARD. IF WE CAN COME UP WITH A CLEAR IDENTIFICATION OF THE WOOD IT WILL ELIMINATE MISTAKES OF CLUB IDENTIFICATION BETWEEN SOUTH PACIFIC, AFRICAN AND SOUTH AMERICAN ITEMS. #8. # 9, #10 ABOVE POST ,MY LARGE HEAVY CLUB APPEARS TO BE PAU WOOD SO I THINK ITS SOUTH AMERICAN. #11 & #12 . ABOVE POST. TIM'S EXAMPLE HAS LINES SIMILAR TO MINE AND IF IT IS PAU WOOD IS LIKELY SOUTH AMERICAN AS WELL. I HAVE NOT HANDLED IT SO CAN'T MAKE FURTHER GUESSES. I WILL PICTURE ANOTHER OF TIM'S CLUBS THAT HAS SIMILAR DESIGNS FOR COMPARISON. PICTURES #1. TWO AMAZON NECKLACES ONE WITH A CAYMAN HEAD AND ANOTHER WITH TWO CATFISH SPINES. #2. & #3. TIM'S CLUB MAY BE PAU WOOD AND HAS INTERESTING DESIGNS. BUT HAS WHITE INLAY AND WHAT LOOKS LIKE YELLOW ORCHID FIBER WRAP WHICH IS MORE SOUTH PACIFIC ISLANDS ESPECIALLY AROUND NEW GUINEA. UNFORTUNATELY I CAN ONLY GUESS AS I AM NO EXPERT ON EXOTIC WOOD AND HAVE ONLY PICTURES CONJECTURE AND GUESSES TO GO ON THE OTHER CLUBS. #4., #5., & #6. A WELL CARVED MEXICAN FOLK ART CLUB BASED ON AN OLD CLUB FORM ( SEE THE PICTURE OF THE PLAIN BACK). CIRCA EARLY 1950'S, DOESN'T FIT ANYWHERE ELSE SO I PUT IT HERE THERE IS A LOT OF INTEREST IN THE MACUAHUCTL A.K.A. MAQUAHUCTL A FORM OR WOODEN CLUB WITH OBSIDIAN BLADES INSET ALONG THE EDGES FORMING A TWO EDGED WEAPON. THEY ARE THOUGHT TO HAVE BEEN AROUND 3 FEET LONG AND THEIR USE WAS THOUGHT TO BE WIDESPREAD IN CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA. THERE IS ONLY A DRAWING OF ONE ORIGINAL CLUB SURVIVING AS THE CLUB WAS DESTROYED BY FIRE IN 1884. IT WAS IN THE COLLECTION OF THE ROYAL MUSEUM IN MADRID SPAIN. THE DRAWING OF THE CLUB WAS DONE IN THE 19TH. CENTURY BY ACHILLE JUBINAL. #4. JUBINAL' S DRAWING. THE CLUB WAS 84 CM. LONG, THE CUTTING EDGE 57 CM. AND THE HANDLE 26 CM. BLADES WERE GLUED IN A GROVE DOWN THE SIDES WITH NATURAL ADHESIVE. THE ONLY OTHER DRAWINGS ARE THE MANY ON POTTERY AND STONE CARVINGS OF WARS AND WARRIORS. THERE ARE MANY INTERESTING DRAWINGS BEING MADE AS WELL AS MANY REPLICAS OF THE MACUAHUCTL BOTH HOLDING TO OLD FORMS OR TO FANTASY AND IMAGINATION. #5., #6., #7., #8. & #9. DRAWINGS OF VARIOUS WARRIORS IN FULL GEAR WITH MACUAHUCTL #10. A REPLICA OF A SHIELD AND MACUAHUCTL #11. & #12. REPLICA 39 INCHES LONG, AZTEC DESIGNS Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 11th September 2016 at 09:08 PM.

11th September 2016, 09:48 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	VARIOUS EXAMPLES OF MODERN MACUAHUCTL. #1. CEREMONIAL UNUSUAL FORM OF BLADES, PAU WOOD, BLACK OBSIDIAN #2. AZTEC WITH SKULL DECORATION #4., TWO MOUNTED CROSSED #3., #5 & #6. CENTRAL MEXICO 36 IN. LONG,BOCOTE WOOD AND MAHOGANY OBSIDIAN BLADES AN ESPECIALLY ATTRACTIVE EXAMPLE. #7 THRU #10 VARIOUS NICE REPLICAS #11. A SAWFISH FORM REPLICA, WOOD AND BONE #12. REPLICA WITH NICE SNAKE FORM DESIGN Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 12th September 2016 at 05:31 PM.

11th September 2016, 10:32 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE LAST OF THE MAQUAHUCTLS #1. A VERY SPIKEY MODERN FORM #2. & #3. A FORM OF SPEAR/CLUB WITH OBSIDIAN BLADES #4.ONE WITH COPPER BLADES NONE WERE KNOWN, BUT COPPER WAS USED FOR JEWELRY AND OTHER USES #5.THIS HAS FLINT KNIVES FORMING A LONG BLADE COULD BE A LONG KNIFE FOR BUTCHERING LARGE ANIMALS A CEREMONIAL FORM OR A WEAPON OR JUST FANTASY. NOT A MACUAHUCTL BUT SIMILAR AND THEY COULD HAVE BEEN MADE Attached Images

12th September 2016, 04:46 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	sadly I did not record the source of this photo Attached Images

12th September 2016, 05:26 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	WOW! THAT'S QUITE A SELECTION AND SEVERAL FORMS I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH. PERHAPS THE COLLECTOR WILL SEE IT AND PROVIDE US WITH SOME INFORMATION. UNTIL THEN I WILL JUST MUDDLE ALONG WITH THIS REFERENCE AS BEST AS I CAN. FILL FREE TO ADD ANYTHING YOU HAVE ALONG THE WAY.

12th September 2016, 06:04 PM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	SHIPIBO-CONIBO TRIBE CLUBS. IN THE PAST THEY WERE TWO RELATED TRIBES THE SHIPIBO LIVING IN THE RAIN FOREST AND HUNTING AND THE CONIBO LIVING NEAR WATER AND FISHING. THE TWO TRIBES ARE COMBINED TODAY AND KNOWN BY BOTH NAMES. THERE IS A LARGE NUMBER AROUND IQUITOS PERU AND ALONG THE UCAYALI RIVER. SOME GROUPS HAVE RANGED FROM BRAZIL TO ECUADOR AS WELL. THE WOMEN DO THE COMPLICATED DESIGNS WHICH REPRESENT SEVERAL BASIC PATTERNS THE SPIRIT OF THE RAIN FOREST, GREAT SERPENT (ANACONDA)AND SPIRITUAL MATTERS. THE DESIGNS ARE GEOMETRIC BUT CAN BE CHANTED OR WHISTLED AS MUSIC AS WELL. THE CLUBS OFTEN HAVE SUCH A DESIGN ON THE BLADE. I READ THAT THE MAN CHOOSES THE DESIGN HE WANTS AND THE WOMEN PUT THE DESIGN ON THE CLUB. A INTERESTING TRIBE WITH A LONG HISTORY. #1. THRU #5. A OLD SHIPIBO CLUB GOOD HEAVY HARD WOOD WITH NO DESIGN ON BLADE. #6. & #7. CIRCA 1960, SHIPIBO/ CLUB WITH DESIGNS ON BOTH SIDES OF BLADE. 45.5 INCHES LONG, 5.5 IN. WIDE AT TIP. UCAYALI RIVER AREA PERU. LIGHT WEIGHT SOFT WOOD NATURAL FIBER AND PIGMENTS. #8., #9. & #10. SMALLER MORE MODERN FORM SHIPIBO CLUB. 43 CM. X 11 CM. WITH COLORFUL CORD WRAP CIRCA 1970 SAID TO BE FROM GUYANA VERY WELL MADE. #11. SHIPIBO CLUB CIRCA 1970 ,PERU 21 INCH. LONG #12. SHIPIBO MEN IN TRADITIONAL CEREMONIAL ATTIRE WITH SMALLER CLUBS. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 12th September 2016 at 06:30 PM.