Nimcha: opinions and translations?

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 5th September 2016, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

yep
the date on the back is engraved, the inscription on the blade is chisled like the Seljuk or Mamluk blades in The arts of the Muslim knight. It's a Moroccan nimcha but an old one. The inscription on the back was probably added later.

It is always very tenuous to place a date on a sword because many blades were switched from one hilt to another. dates became added...They assumed the realms of make believe occasionally. Notwithstanding the inscribed date what are the clues to age ? How old can the blade be? How much age is visible in the hilt? Half way down the Knuckle Guard there is a signature or date in a small button sized roundel.....what is that?
I add in retrospect that this is an interesting item. An aristocrats sword thus the addition of Gold work a Rhino hilt and the enamel work known as Champleve...on the stud on top of the Pommel and at the base ring. There is light overall wear suggesting to my eye 18th C.

Such a pity there is no Scabbard but no doubt that would have been richly decorated in similar style. The pitons or projections on the guard are intriguing and original not added according to the decorative style...The bite marks on the blade offer the suggestion of the blade being of Genoa ..I leave all suggestions wide open for comments..

Evgeny_K · 26th May 2019, 11:10 PM

Gents,
What could you say about this sword? Looks like markings are same?
This sword was found on the Black Sea coast of Russia - a region that was under the influence of Genoa.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 26th May 2019, 11:40 PM

I agree Genoa fits … as I noted earlier there is often a little button about two thirds the way down the knuckle guard with writing on it...this weapon has one... cant make out the letters but it could be a date or makers mark... great to see this thread still going..

Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Jim McDougall · 27th May 2019, 04:35 AM

It is indeed good to see this thread come up again, and most interesting sword which appears to be possibly what remains of a 'nimcha' of North Africa. The quillons of course do not seem exactly the same, but there were numbers of variant hilt systems.While the markings seem to have the triple dots and configuration of what is typically regarded as the 'sickle mark' of Genoa, this marking in variation was widely copied by other blade making centers.

It seems that blade making centers in Styria much favored these marks and applied them to their blades. It is known that Austrian blades had gained much favor in North Africa by the 19th c. and many filtered into entrepots there, so seeing them on nimchas was not unusual.

It is difficult however to imagine how a nimcha (if this indeed is one of these) with Styrian blade, ended up in the Russian Black Sea region. Genoa had diminished in its colonies and blade traffic by the 18th c. and while the reputation and of course influences lingered on, many of the blades were now typically produced elsewhere for trade.

We might surmise that Barbary Pirates and trade interaction in the Mediterranean might have networked this sword into the context in which it was found, but that would remain an assumption.

TVV · 27th May 2019, 08:24 AM

The Ottoman Empire had significant presence along the North-East Black Sea Coast so it is not improbable that a Maghreb blade from the far western reaches of the Empire in Africa would travel all the way to the Black Sea during Ottoman naval activities. Interesting find.

Evgeny_K · 27th May 2019, 04:52 PM

This form of the crossguard is specific to Moroccan sabers? Could it be a Genoese sword (not only the blade)?
Here are some additional pics of markings.

Kubur · 27th May 2019, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evgeny_K

This form of the crossguard is specific to Moroccan sabers? Could it be a Genoese sword (not only the blade)?

You're right.
Moroccan swords have 3 quillons down.
The tang should be thinner, straight without peg holes.
The sword presented here had a grip made of two pieces of horn like Turkish swords or Caucasian kindjals.
Conclusion either you have an Italian sword or a local sword with an Italian blade.

26th May 2019, 11:10 PM	#2
Evgeny_K Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 213	Gents, What could you say about this sword? Looks like markings are same? This sword was found on the Black Sea coast of Russia - a region that was under the influence of Genoa. Attached Images

27th May 2019, 04:52 PM	#6
Evgeny_K Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 213	This form of the crossguard is specific to Moroccan sabers? Could it be a Genoese sword (not only the blade)? Here are some additional pics of markings. Attached Images

26th May 2019, 11:40 PM	#3
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	I agree Genoa fits … as I noted earlier there is often a little button about two thirds the way down the knuckle guard with writing on it...this weapon has one... cant make out the letters but it could be a date or makers mark... great to see this thread still going.. Ibrahiim al Balooshi

27th May 2019, 04:35 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,194	It is indeed good to see this thread come up again, and most interesting sword which appears to be possibly what remains of a 'nimcha' of North Africa. The quillons of course do not seem exactly the same, but there were numbers of variant hilt systems.While the markings seem to have the triple dots and configuration of what is typically regarded as the 'sickle mark' of Genoa, this marking in variation was widely copied by other blade making centers. It seems that blade making centers in Styria much favored these marks and applied them to their blades. It is known that Austrian blades had gained much favor in North Africa by the 19th c. and many filtered into entrepots there, so seeing them on nimchas was not unusual. It is difficult however to imagine how a nimcha (if this indeed is one of these) with Styrian blade, ended up in the Russian Black Sea region. Genoa had diminished in its colonies and blade traffic by the 18th c. and while the reputation and of course influences lingered on, many of the blades were now typically produced elsewhere for trade. We might surmise that Barbary Pirates and trade interaction in the Mediterranean might have networked this sword into the context in which it was found, but that would remain an assumption.

27th May 2019, 08:24 AM	#5
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	The Ottoman Empire had significant presence along the North-East Black Sea Coast so it is not improbable that a Maghreb blade from the far western reaches of the Empire in Africa would travel all the way to the Black Sea during Ottoman naval activities. Interesting find.