A tiller/stick cannon for comments

fernando · 3rd September 2016, 10:05 PM

I will call it the Montjuic type; but this is only to give it a name, as influenced by various threads where Matchlock introduced a few of these, as apparently several examples were deacessioned by that ex-military museum from Barcelona.
But in fact i have no actual evidence on the provenance of this cannon, for which i would be much obliged for any help towards it ID. Concerning its age, let us assume it is from circa 1450, as per its characteristics; but corrections will be considered.
Pity that one of its former owners decided to cut off its (apparently) original tiller.
Barrel length: 40 cm.
Total length (without haft stump): 53 cm.
Caliber: 10 mm.
Weight: not yet known.
Better pictures will be posted, when it arrives.

.

ChrisPer · 4th September 2016, 05:44 AM

Thanks for posting, its a very interesting piece. Is the form of flared muzzle very unusual in guns of this type? I note that the reinforce bands have a soft rounded outer surface form and an impression of strength that speaks of some sophistication in craft.

fernando · 4th September 2016, 01:29 PM

Thank you Chris,
You can often see flared muzzles out there. HERE is one.
We can also see one in the Museum of Tabor, South Bohemia, dated 1419-1434, used in the city during the Husites wars. Attached is a replica of such example. Amazingly that the Checks called these hand cannons P͊T'ALA, meaning tube, which gave the contemporary name pistol (actually pistola in portuguese).

.

Marcus den toom · 4th September 2016, 01:32 PM

It is of Montjuic type, no doubt about that (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=montjuic)

The added barrelmouth piece seems to be Spanish in style. I wil look for medieval sources of Spanish tiller guns to verify this.

All in all a very rare gun.

Silver Shield · 4th September 2016, 03:50 PM

Fernando ,
That is a really wonderful piece !! Id offer 3 large sea shells , one chicken and three colored round stones ! All joking aside its nice to see these early gonne types and preservation seems very nice . Any Markers Marks ?Or Marks of any kind ?

fernando · 4th September 2016, 05:45 PM

Thank you Michael,
It is not yet in my possession, but i don't think it has any marks.
However i was told that it is loaded; probably some ball or clod shot in its chamber.

fernando · 9th October 2016, 02:35 PM

Not much improvement with the new photos. I am not yet motivated to try and extract the contents inside barrel, assuming it is a real ammunition load. I don't have the means to check it close enough nor the tools to pull it out; neither the notion to define whether it is iron or soft lead, which would facilitate the extraction with some screw device.

.

3rd September 2016, 10:05 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	A tiller/stick cannon for comments I will call it the Montjuic type; but this is only to give it a name, as influenced by various threads where Matchlock introduced a few of these, as apparently several examples were deacessioned by that ex-military museum from Barcelona. But in fact i have no actual evidence on the provenance of this cannon, for which i would be much obliged for any help towards it ID. Concerning its age, let us assume it is from circa 1450, as per its characteristics; but corrections will be considered. Pity that one of its former owners decided to cut off its (apparently) original tiller. Barrel length: 40 cm. Total length (without haft stump): 53 cm. Caliber: 10 mm. Weight: not yet known. Better pictures will be posted, when it arrives. . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 10th September 2016 at 02:06 PM.

4th September 2016, 05:44 AM	#2
ChrisPer Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 35	Thanks for posting, its a very interesting piece. Is the form of flared muzzle very unusual in guns of this type? I note that the reinforce bands have a soft rounded outer surface form and an impression of strength that speaks of some sophistication in craft. Last edited by ChrisPer; 4th September 2016 at 05:57 AM.

4th September 2016, 01:29 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you Chris, You can often see flared muzzles out there. HERE is one. We can also see one in the Museum of Tabor, South Bohemia, dated 1419-1434, used in the city during the Husites wars. Attached is a replica of such example. Amazingly that the Checks called these hand cannons P͊T'ALA, meaning tube, which gave the contemporary name pistol (actually pistola in portuguese). . Attached Images

4th September 2016, 03:50 PM	#5
Silver Shield Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Phoenix Arizona USA Posts: 32	WOW Fernando , That is a really wonderful piece !! Id offer 3 large sea shells , one chicken and three colored round stones ! All joking aside its nice to see these early gonne types and preservation seems very nice . Any Markers Marks ?Or Marks of any kind ?

9th October 2016, 02:35 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Not much improvement with the new photos. I am not yet motivated to try and extract the contents inside barrel, assuming it is a real ammunition load. I don't have the means to check it close enough nor the tools to pull it out; neither the notion to define whether it is iron or soft lead, which would facilitate the extraction with some screw device. . Attached Images

4th September 2016, 01:32 PM	#4
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 541	It is of Montjuic type, no doubt about that (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=montjuic) The added barrelmouth piece seems to be Spanish in style. I wil look for medieval sources of Spanish tiller guns to verify this. All in all a very rare gun.

4th September 2016, 05:45 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you Michael, It is not yet in my possession, but i don't think it has any marks. However i was told that it is loaded; probably some ball or clod shot in its chamber.