Oldest Known European Metal Tool ? The Start of it all

ChrisPer · 31st August 2016, 09:23 AM

Very interesting, thank you Silver Shield.

JamesKelly · 25th October 2016, 10:30 PM

With respect to chemical analysis, the word "spark" gives me the shivers.

There is a process, known as X-ray fluorescent analysis which may be applied with absolutely no marking of the metal. I am retired Director of Technology from a specialty metal supplier, Rolled Alloys. They have a wonderful device in the lab, at least the one I used was called: Innov-X Systems Model #XT-245S spectrometer. I was able to test the brass/bronze on a number of 19th century firearms, and the odd old coin with this device. Somewhere at the U of Az someone must have a similar machine.

If you do not already know this, NEVER leave your artifact with a lab technician to analyze.

You must have your personal body present at all times. Otherwise he may well cut it up or melt it to give you an even Better analyses. Learnt this at first job, Black & Decker. A salesman for B&D collected Civil War items, and came in with a short artillery sword, might even have been Confederate. Wanted us metallurgists to take a look at it. My boss had a wonderful sense of humor, he planned to cut the blade in half, then mount & polish as specimen for metallography. We were able to talk him out of this approach, therefore avoiding potential homicide.

Lab guys have absolutely NO sense of humor, nor can they appreciate ancient things. This can hold true for archaeology students as well, in my experience. Well, I did see only one such student cheerfully chopping up early bronze age axes for metallographic examination. She told me they had plenty of them.

Anyway, X-ray fluoroscopy is the way to go, just make sure you are present. Lest they polish or grind some area to get a Better reading.

Rick · 26th October 2016, 04:08 AM

Do you fellows have any thoughts on this?
http://www.express.co.uk/news/scienc...-alien-ancient

Roland_M · 26th October 2016, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Do you fellows have any thoughts on this?
http://www.express.co.uk/news/scienc...-alien-ancient

"Some scientists have disputed the age, claiming that it could be anywhere between 400-years old and 80,000-years old"

My first question would be, how did they found out the age of the piece? Is it just an assumption or measured with technical methods like Radiocarbon dating?

I believe this piece is pretty young and was used under very aggressive environemt conditions. Maybe in the area of a blast furnace or in a chemical plant.

Nothing esoteric, no Aliens. Raw Aluminium is too soft for a fast ufo and have a melting point of only 660°C.

If it would be Alien-material, it must be a composite material. Raw Aluminium is not the best choice for an air-vehicle.

Roland

PS: Oh and the tool is 100% no cold hammered natural occuring copper, it was melted and casted.

JamesKelly · 27th October 2016, 03:08 AM

With all possible respect, I am considering placing some portions of that story about the old aluminum thing about Wife's roses next spring. I understand it is also good for rhubarb.

31st August 2016, 09:23 AM	#1
ChrisPer Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 35	Very interesting, thank you Silver Shield.

25th October 2016, 10:30 PM	#2
JamesKelly Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Michigan, U.S.A. Posts: 108	With respect to chemical analysis, the word "spark" gives me the shivers. There is a process, known as X-ray fluorescent analysis which may be applied with absolutely no marking of the metal. I am retired Director of Technology from a specialty metal supplier, Rolled Alloys. They have a wonderful device in the lab, at least the one I used was called: Innov-X Systems Model #XT-245S spectrometer. I was able to test the brass/bronze on a number of 19th century firearms, and the odd old coin with this device. Somewhere at the U of Az someone must have a similar machine. If you do not already know this, NEVER leave your artifact with a lab technician to analyze. You must have your personal body present at all times. Otherwise he may well cut it up or melt it to give you an even Better analyses. Learnt this at first job, Black & Decker. A salesman for B&D collected Civil War items, and came in with a short artillery sword, might even have been Confederate. Wanted us metallurgists to take a look at it. My boss had a wonderful sense of humor, he planned to cut the blade in half, then mount & polish as specimen for metallography. We were able to talk him out of this approach, therefore avoiding potential homicide. Lab guys have absolutely NO sense of humor, nor can they appreciate ancient things. This can hold true for archaeology students as well, in my experience. Well, I did see only one such student cheerfully chopping up early bronze age axes for metallographic examination. She told me they had plenty of them. Anyway, X-ray fluoroscopy is the way to go, just make sure you are present. Lest they polish or grind some area to get a Better reading.

26th October 2016, 04:08 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Do you fellows have any thoughts on this? http://www.express.co.uk/news/scienc...-alien-ancient

27th October 2016, 03:08 AM	#5
JamesKelly Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Michigan, U.S.A. Posts: 108	With all possible respect, I am considering placing some portions of that story about the old aluminum thing about Wife's roses next spring. I understand it is also good for rhubarb.