questions about Taiwanese matchlocks

[rickystl]

Hi Philip.

While my primary interest is Ethno firearms, I know very little about these Chinese/Tiwanese matchlocks. Thank you for the history lesson. Most interesting. While you were handling the gun in MA did you notice wheather or not the 90 degree bend in the butt stock was made in two pieces or one ?

Hi KuKulzA28.

That would be a very interesting project. A tapered, round musket barrel would not be difficult to locate, as long as you can use one about 46" long or less. Otherwise, it would have to be custom ordered. (I'm just now expecting delivery of a barrel I've been waiting for a year and a half).
If you can't use a matchlock, the crude-style flintlock that Philip mentions would be the way to go. It would likely be the only flintlock "style" that would look right with the gun. I know the lock that Philip mentions. There was one that came up for sale a couple years ago. I should have bought it. DARN. While having an original lock to copy would be best, there are lock makers here in the U.S. that can make a copy of this lock from photos. They can even copy the crudeness, but make it function correctly and reliably.

Let us know if we can be of help in sourcing material.

Rick

[KuKulzA28]

WOW. Thank you both so much for that. Learning more about my own culture's Martial history is great.

Any name or picture of this primitive flintlock?

Time to go hunt down parts and the right stock, and quality chisels!

I'm sure more questions might come up as I go...


Edit: and I do want to note that while I do know of many of the ethnic and cultural differences in Taiwan, between settlers and Aborigines, between the 'tribes', between hakka and hoklo... ..I was under the impression that the matchlocks were imported Chinese ones... There's much for me to learn!

[Philip]

Ricky,
The stock was originally painted or lacquered and there's this lovely patina of age on it. All of which didn't allow me to check if it was two piece. (plus, the lighting in the museum's depot leaves something to be desired!). Getting such a deep curve and slender profile from one piece of wood takes some doing. I wonder if saplings were bent to shape and the trees allowed to grow into the shape, leaving the upper part straight for the fore-end? That would provide maximum strength, and a lot of trees grow rather quickly in the tropics. I have no idea what kind of wood the original is made of. A buddy of mine in CA happens to have one of these guns, let me ask him what his is made of. Stay tuned.

Hey guys -- if you want to go the crude tribal flintlock route, why not pick up one of those Vietnam "Montagnard" guns I was talking about at a gun show, find one with a lock in good shape, and use that? The things are so simple and sturdy I hardly ever see one that's really damaged. The guns themselves have little collector value so taking the lock off isn't the kiss of death. Wait... I remember that they are dismountable without the need to bust anything. Slide the large rearmost barrel band forward, it allows the "tongue" at the front of the lockplate to lift free. Rotate it sideways away from the stock. The rear is a hook engaging an iron staple pounded into the stock. The thing is easier to field-strip than an AK-47!

Be forewarned, though, that these locks are primitive. Forget about what you saw in that movie about the Alamo. There is no screw-tightened jaws for the flint, it's probably anchored with tree resin and rawhide (changing it is a chore, in fact just about all of the originals you see lack a flint). There is no depression to speak of for a priming pan. Just pour a tad of powder on the wide ledge next to the touchhole, close the frizzen, invoke the blessings of St Barbara if you're Catholic, and take on that tiger that's staring you down on the jungle path.

[rickystl]

Hi Philip.

Thanks for your reply. Yes, maybe your friend can advise us on the stock. All the photos I've seen seem to show it being a one-piece stock. I've never held/seen one up close. Even with the prolonged use of steam, I can't imagine being able to make that severe of a bend without weakening or breaking the stock. I think your theory of positioning a young sapling in the desired position, and letting it grow in that direction has merit. Would be interesting to know.
But for a shooting replica, a two-piece stock is one option.

Another option, as Philip mentions, would be to purchase a complete Vietnamese gun and use the lock. There doesn't seem to be any real collector interest/value in these guns. They tend to sell for a low price.

One more option. Unless there is a big difference between the Tiwanese and Vietnamese stock and barrel design, you could purchase the complete Vietnames gun and re-orient the look of the gun to fit the Tiwanese style, and use a new barrel or have a new steel liner installed in the existing barrel. And that might be the least expensive route. Just a thought.

I'm still kicking myself for not getting that lock off Ebay when I saw it 2-3 years ago.

Rick

[Philip]

LOCK:
If you're after ETHNOGRAPHIC ACCURACY in your design, the Viet hill-tribes flintlock will not do. They are distinctly different from the extremely primitive matchlock typical of Taiwan. In fact, those Taiwan matchlock mechanisms are so simple that a replica can be fabricated for very little money, can be made at home by anyone who's handy with tools and has basic workshop equipment including a torch. After all, the originals were made a milieu with the most elementary metalworking skill-set. Good images should be obtained from the Peabody-Essex museum, and you can go from there.

BARREL:
I think the originals were probably imported, most likely from Chinese traders. W. W. Greener, in THE BOOK OF THE GUN, offers eyewitness descriptions of itinerant Chinese smiths making good quality twist forged smoothbore barrels in shops set up at their customers' homes in south China. VOC records show various arms imported into northern Burma from China in the 17th cent., and you've probably seen Moro barongs with Chinese markings on the blades.

You could conceivably use the barrel off a Viet hill-tribe musket, they are quite nicely forged considering the crudity of the rest of the gun. Problem here is that they are shorter and smaller in bore than the existing Taiwan examples. Shooting one may be problematic from a safety standpoint because ethnographic iron objects from SE Asia tend to have corroded a fair amount due to climate and irregular maintenance (sometimes outright neglect after they were collected in the field).

STOCK
From a practical standpoint, 2-piece is the way to go if you don't want to wait for a sapling to grow for you. I don't know how skillful the Taiwan aborigines were at carpentry, whether they borrowed the skill of Chinese joiners who could do these tight and near invisible scarf joints on the curved backs/arms of those Ming style "horseshoe" armchairs.

Lemme call my buddy in San Diego who has a Taiwan gun and ask him if his stock is 1 or 2 piece. Stay tuned, guys.

[rickystl]

Well, apparently, there is a sizable difference between the Taiwanese and Vietnamese guns other than the rudimantry first glance. So, you can ignore most of my post mentions above. LOL
So, what we want to do is replicate a Taiwanese matchlock. And I assume with as much accuracy as reasonable (?) Since I don't recall ever seeing a picture of one, I can't really comment on the specifics. But Philip has done an outstanding job. If there is an original available to copy from photos and specs, it is doable. Here's what I visualize so far:

BARREL: Smoothbore barrels in virtually any length, caliber, and dimension can be made. And at a reasonable cost. So I don't see this being much of an issue.
STOCK: I'm thinking the stock could be made as one-piece. There are gunstock blanks 2" thick readilly available (although I don't know what wood was typically used with these Taiwanese matchlocks). But you would need a wood plank that is about 12" WIDE (guessing) by 2" thick, in the desired length. That might be difficult to find (?). Would be worth waiting to see what Philip's friend tells us.
LOCK: The MATCHLOCK lock seems to be the only lock to replicate authenticity. But if you CAN'T use a matchlock lock, not sure what the alternative should be? While the Vietnamese style flintlock would be historically incorrect, any contemorary made flintlock would be even more so, and look very odd on the gun. Possibly a percussion variation similar to another Thread recently posted here on the Forum?

Is there actually a law in Taiwan using a matchlock? Just curious.

Rick

[Philip]

1. PICS . I talked to my friend yesterday who has perhaps the best example of these known in private hands in the US, he recalls the stock being one piece but will check and send images of relevant details including the lock. He's a tad absent minded (and dealing with a plumbing leak) so it may be awhile, I'll keep after him. I will have to send you these by private email since he doesn't want them publicized.

2. Barrel: Will also try and get the dimensions.

3. Alternative info sources: It's always good to corroborate data against another known example. Good idea for you to contact the Peabody-Essex Museum in Salem, MA to see if you can get pics and measurements of theirs. The entry in Stone's GLOSSARY only gives an overall length of 4 ft 10.25 in, no barrel length and no caliber. Barrel is "covered with brass". Having bore dimensions of different examples is good to determine historically accurate boundaries for the replica. One thing I have noticed is that a lot of these SE Asian and western Pacific archipelago pieces have relatively small bores. The Vietnamese highland ones, especially so, like around .35 - .40 cal. at most. Compare to Chinese and other north Asian guns which are around .50 cal, bigger for rampart guns.