Bowie knives

Jim McDougall · 12th February 2006, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

I've been collecting bowies (among other sharp pointy things) for
about 40 years. The "original" was basically a large butcher knife which
bears little resemblence to what people today think of as a bowie knife.
Certainly not an original design. I've a French hunting knife from circa
1790 that anyone would call a "bowie knife".

Rich

I very much agree Rich. Actually the Bowie brothers, James and Rezin, were quite familiar with European style knife fighting, as they had considerable contact with this in thier dealings in Louisiana in somewhat controversial 'business'. The actual form of the knife is believed to have derived most likely from the 'Meditteranean' forms of knife carried by men from both France and especially Spain. The notching on the back of the blade suggests probably more Spanish influence however. Regardless, the deadly knife combat of the Spaniards as well as the French is well known.

Surprisingly the first use of the term 'Bowie' knife to describe a specific form was in a news item in 1835 (Flayderman, op.cit. p.22), actually the year before James Bowie achieved his immortal fame at the Alamo along with those other courageous defenders who died there.

Best regards,
Jim

Rich · 12th February 2006, 08:59 PM

Punal, maybe; althought I still think reworked India.
Fake? yes, in any case if it was sold or represented as an
old American "bowie" knife.

Rich

not2sharp · 13th February 2006, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

Punal, maybe; althought I still think reworked India.
Fake? yes, in any case if it was sold or represented as an
old American "bowie" knife.

Rich

I doubt that it is a fake or a reworked peice; nor, is it a bowie. This is probably a souvenir knife that was likely made in theater during WWII.

n2s

Lew · 13th February 2006, 12:15 PM

Hi Guys

I think this is a reworked older Indian knife circa WW2. The blade seems to be made from very thin stock where as older bowie knives where no less than 3/16" thick at the spine. Here is a pic of a 1890s or so bowie made in India which I believe these later knives were copied from.

Lew

Spunjer · 13th February 2006, 01:18 PM

Quote:

You're not going to like my reply :-( but I believe this is a
total fake. It is a rework IMHO of a 1950-60's carving knife made
in India. I've seen dozens and dozens of knives exactly like this
with carved sheaths and handles and plainly marked made in India
or just India.

it's ok rich, lol. this specific knife was sold on ebay awhile back (not to me) and the only reason i saved the picture was because the seller said it was a civil war knife, and the locking mechanism intrigues me. never saw anything like it. i was gonna post it awhile back and see if anyone recognizes it. i'm glad i procastinated...

Rich · 13th February 2006, 01:25 PM

Beautiful Arnacellum hunter. These are really nice, well made knives (I've two
of them; one exactly like this). While not "bowies" in the classical sense;
ie, too late and wrong countries; still really finely made knives. Flayderman
(if I recall) attributes to being made for English in India circa mid - late 1800's;
brought back to England and then to US circa turn 20th C. Quality certainly
nothing like the carved sheath India carving knives I was referring too.

Rich S

Justin · 13th February 2006, 02:10 PM

Bowies are indeed what I would call an American Ethnic knife ,however at the same time they were being carried there were all kinds of dirks and folding knives that were also in use,including my favorite and the most definate American knife of all the 'push dagger'.I think we tend to avoid these things here because many of them were mass produced both here and in Europe but that didnt keep them from being extremely popular weapons and tools among civilians and military.

Jim bowie supposedly had somewhere around 14 different knives that he carried ,he loved knives and I would be willing to bet that he owned many more than the 14,hard to tell what any of them looked like .There were bowies for hunting and fighting as previously mentioned but as I understand it size was the difference. I have two Sheffield made bowies one is probably M-L 19th cent the other L 19th-E 20th at about 10 inches long overall they were supposed to be for hunting.

He didnt hesitate to use them either ,Ive read about several duels he was in using his knives.He wasnt a good person to challenge since he usually liked to make up odd and risky terms.There was one incident where he and another gentleman sat face to face straddling a log,their seconds nailed their pants down to the log and when the signal was given they went at each other with their knives,needless to say he won.In another ordeal he ended up being shot several times,cut and had a sword cane blade snap off while still stuck in his chest,and lived.-'Gentleman Swords and Pistols' a very good book for anyone interested in dueling in the old South.

The knife in question above does look a little different from the Indian carving sets but that brass clasp is something that I have seen on them before ,it may be similar to a gunong but I think it is from India.

13th February 2006, 12:15 PM	#4
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi Guys I think this is a reworked older Indian knife circa WW2. The blade seems to be made from very thin stock where as older bowie knives where no less than 3/16" thick at the spine. Here is a pic of a 1890s or so bowie made in India which I believe these later knives were copied from. Lew Attached Images

12th February 2006, 08:59 PM	#2
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	Punal, maybe; althought I still think reworked India. Fake? yes, in any case if it was sold or represented as an old American "bowie" knife. Rich

13th February 2006, 01:25 PM	#6
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	Beautiful Arnacellum hunter. These are really nice, well made knives (I've two of them; one exactly like this). While not "bowies" in the classical sense; ie, too late and wrong countries; still really finely made knives. Flayderman (if I recall) attributes to being made for English in India circa mid - late 1800's; brought back to England and then to US circa turn 20th C. Quality certainly nothing like the carved sheath India carving knives I was referring too. Rich S

13th February 2006, 02:10 PM	#7
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 182	Bowies are indeed what I would call an American Ethnic knife ,however at the same time they were being carried there were all kinds of dirks and folding knives that were also in use,including my favorite and the most definate American knife of all the 'push dagger'.I think we tend to avoid these things here because many of them were mass produced both here and in Europe but that didnt keep them from being extremely popular weapons and tools among civilians and military. Jim bowie supposedly had somewhere around 14 different knives that he carried ,he loved knives and I would be willing to bet that he owned many more than the 14,hard to tell what any of them looked like .There were bowies for hunting and fighting as previously mentioned but as I understand it size was the difference. I have two Sheffield made bowies one is probably M-L 19th cent the other L 19th-E 20th at about 10 inches long overall they were supposed to be for hunting. He didnt hesitate to use them either ,Ive read about several duels he was in using his knives.He wasnt a good person to challenge since he usually liked to make up odd and risky terms.There was one incident where he and another gentleman sat face to face straddling a log,their seconds nailed their pants down to the log and when the signal was given they went at each other with their knives,needless to say he won.In another ordeal he ended up being shot several times,cut and had a sword cane blade snap off while still stuck in his chest,and lived.-'Gentleman Swords and Pistols' a very good book for anyone interested in dueling in the old South. The knife in question above does look a little different from the Indian carving sets but that brass clasp is something that I have seen on them before ,it may be similar to a gunong but I think it is from India.