Balinese Keris Exhibition in Hollenstedt, Germany

kai · 21st August 2016, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yeah, it could well be, but at E65 and with these two names attached to it, I would expect some text of substance.

Garret's "World of ---" was only a cat. too, but it remains probably the best single work on the Javanese Keris.

Actually, I do like the booklet (available in German and English versions): about half is IMVHO a pretty well-done introductory text mainly based on AW's thesis and the other half pics and short descriptions of all exhibited keris. I would have loved AW to integrate Alan's not-so-recent-anymore paper (2013. An Interpretation of the Pre-Islamic Javanese Keris: cp. http://kerisattosanaji.com/INTERPRETATIONPAGE1.html) or at least comment on it since I feel it also weights in quite a bit on the subject of keris Bali; also I would have liked the pics to also show blades which are hidden in scabbards at the exhibition. Nevertheless I believe it is a really nice book to have...

The booklet/cat is available from ificah.org for 38 Euro (+ postage fee) which certainly is much better deal than offered by the commercial online stores!

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 22nd August 2016, 09:39 PM

Roland and I am have had last Sunday the trip to Hollenstedt. I only can second what Kai already has said. Günther Heckmann is a very nice and courteous person and we have had some very enjoyable and informative hours. In respect to ificah and the nice booklet for resonable price we don't have taken pictures but it's planed to bring the pictures from ificah online visible but this can take some time.
What I can add is that the display is arranged with care and love to distraction. Very intersting!

Jean · 29th August 2016, 09:51 AM

I received and read the booklet and basically concur with the positive evaluation made by Kai and Sajen. All the kris shown are of good to high/ exceptional quality, I feel that the estimated age of some blades may be overestimated but have no definite elements to prove it.
The pictures are excellent but because of the black background, the pamor pattern of some blades is hardly visible.
The pamor pattern of many blades (22 out of 31) is identified as "Balinese Ilining Warih (flowing water) equivalent to Javanese Beras Wutah" although they look quite different from each other. This terminology was also used in the book from Neka but I am not sure that it is correct, other opinions would be welcome.
Some Balinese kris terms used (type of hilts, etc.) are not standard.

Regards

A. G. Maisey · 29th August 2016, 01:28 PM

Jean, if this book says that ilining warih is equivalent (ie, the same as) beras wutah, they are wrong.

Sorry, but they misunderstand.

Beras wutah (wos wutah, wusing wutah --- and a number of other spelling variations) is the major random pamor pattern:- you take the material, fold and weld a few times, forge the keris, carve: job done. Result:- random pamor:- beras wutah.

However, that random pamor has a number of variations in form, so we can have different wos wutah motifs; this is so in Javanese wos wutah and also in Balinese wos wutah.

The text in "Keris Bali Bersejarah" was written by Basuki Teguh Yuwono, a young Javanese gentleman who is a product of the Central Javanese keris school of Solo, and this background shines through consistently in his text.

On pages 97 & 98 of "Keris Bali ---" there are photos of various random pamor motifs. These pamors are all named as Wusing Wutah (ie, beras wutah, wos wutah), but then the motif variation is named, and ilining warih is one of these beras wutah motif variations, along with ngulit semangka, pulo tirto. gedhegan, gedhegan bulat, semangka wengkon, ngintip, wengkon.

So ilining warih is definitely not equivalent to beras wutah, it is motif variation of beras wutah.

We can find exactly the same thing in Jawa.

Strictly speaking the pamor motif should be named as "Beras Wutah, ilining warih", but who is so tightly controlled in terminology all the time? Not me, that's for sure, so mostly we just use the name of the motif variation, same as if we are talking about a motor vehicle, we don't always say "Ford Mustang", mostly we just say "Mustang":- everybody knows its a Ford.

Re the pamor being difficult to see. Is it possible that these blades with difficult to see pamors are older blades? Mostly very old Bali blades do not have high contrast pamor, it is often, maybe usually, quite dark, very little contrast, especially in keris that would have been the property of common people.

Jean · 29th August 2016, 03:06 PM

Hello Alan,
Thank you for your reply.
In the English version of the booklet, the pamor description is as follows: "Pamor in Balinese teminology ilining warih (flowing water) in Javanese beras wutah". A bit confusing? It was my impression that pamor Ilining Warih in Java is not a variation of Beras Wutah but more similar to pamor Adeg?
And regarding the pamor contrast of the blades, it is generally good but not clearly visible only because of the black background and the (too) dark shade of the pictures, it would appear much better on a clear background.
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 30th August 2016, 12:07 AM

As I said Jean:- that is wrong.

Ilining warih is one of the variations of wos wutah:- it's still wos wutah, but sub-motif ilining warih --- at least according to Basuki Teguh Yuwono in "Keris Bali ---' .

I have never seen a pamor in a Javanese keris that anybody referred to as ilining warih. In fact, even though this name could legitimately be used to describe a pamor in a Javanese keris, I've never heard it used.

The word "warih" is Javanese literary usage and in Bali it has a similar position in the hierarchy of usage, it is a Kawi word, which means it is literary usage and it is also OK for court usage.

I do not speak Balinese, I pulled all this out of a dictionary. I asked a Balinese lady I know first, but she only speaks low level Balinese.

However, "ilining" is legitimate Javanese usage. The name ilining warih is legit Javanese usage, it is not normal Balinese, but it may be in use in Balinese as a combination of Kawi + the word "ilining" which could perhaps be deemed a foreign word because it is Javanese.

So let's accept that it is legit usage in both places, even though I have never encountered it in use anywhere.

The only illustration I can find of ilining warih is in Harsrinuksmo, and that entry goes on and describes what I know as an adeg pamor. As is not uncommon with Harsrinuksmo, I think it may be another of his, let us say, "journalistic" entries.

This is a common criticism of Harsrinuksmo, and it could well be unjust. He did not hold himself forth as a keris expert, but rather as a writer about keris. He sourced his info from various accepted keris authorities.

One of the very well known characteristics of information sourced from Javanese informants is that if you ask a question you will be given an answer and the answer you get is very likely to be the answer that the informant thinks will please you. You need to be very close to somebody before you get a "sorry, I don't know", or even a 100% genuine transfer of information, which even then must be questioned and validated.

To be able to name any pamor with reasonable accuracy you need to understand how it was made.

In the Balinese examples that Basuki Yuwono names as "wusing wutah --ilining warih" the pamor has been made by welding the layers of contrasting pamor material with minimum distortion, and then cutting the kruwingan to expose the separate layers of pamor mlumah. In effect we are looking at "laying down pamor" that has carefully had the distorted layers of material removed to expose principally parallel layers of material.

In an adeg pamor we are looking at a pamor miring, where the layers of pamor have been manipulated in the forge so that they stand at 90 degrees to the core of the blade:- a "cross-ways" pamor.

Yet Harsrinuksmo tells us that ilining warih is similar to adeg?

Come on, the bloke simply didn't know what he was writing about and that means his informant didn't understand what he was talking about. Don't think that just because something is written by an Indonesian, or a Javanese, that they all know what they're talking about --- or that they necessarily want to tell you everything they know.

But Basuki Yuwono does know what he's talking about. He is a skilled pande keris in his own right. Some would accord him the title of empu.

In summary:-

Yuwono is right.

Harsrinuksmo is wrong.

Whoever believes that ilining warih is not a sub-motif of beras wutah is very misguided.

~~~~~~~~~~~

re the indistinct pics --- understood, thanks

Jean · 30th August 2016, 09:34 AM

Thank you Alan for your detailed and thorough reply, especially the difference between pamor Ilining Warih and Adeg.
I hope that you will have the opportunity to see the catalog yourself for getting a more complete idea. What disturbs me as I said is that a number of blades identified with pamor Ilining Warih do not show principally parallel layers of materials.
And about the pictures, sorry I should have said too dark shade instead of colour.
Regards

29th August 2016, 03:06 PM	#5
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Alan, Thank you for your reply. In the English version of the booklet, the pamor description is as follows: "Pamor in Balinese teminology ilining warih (flowing water) in Javanese beras wutah". A bit confusing? It was my impression that pamor Ilining Warih in Java is not a variation of Beras Wutah but more similar to pamor Adeg? And regarding the pamor contrast of the blades, it is generally good but not clearly visible only because of the black background and the (too) dark shade of the pictures, it would appear much better on a clear background. Regards Last edited by Jean; 30th August 2016 at 09:13 AM.

22nd August 2016, 09:39 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Roland and I am have had last Sunday the trip to Hollenstedt. I only can second what Kai already has said. Günther Heckmann is a very nice and courteous person and we have had some very enjoyable and informative hours. In respect to ificah and the nice booklet for resonable price we don't have taken pictures but it's planed to bring the pictures from ificah online visible but this can take some time. What I can add is that the display is arranged with care and love to distraction. Very intersting!

29th August 2016, 09:51 AM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	I received and read the booklet and basically concur with the positive evaluation made by Kai and Sajen. All the kris shown are of good to high/ exceptional quality, I feel that the estimated age of some blades may be overestimated but have no definite elements to prove it. The pictures are excellent but because of the black background, the pamor pattern of some blades is hardly visible. The pamor pattern of many blades (22 out of 31) is identified as "Balinese Ilining Warih (flowing water) equivalent to Javanese Beras Wutah" although they look quite different from each other. This terminology was also used in the book from Neka but I am not sure that it is correct, other opinions would be welcome. Some Balinese kris terms used (type of hilts, etc.) are not standard. Regards

29th August 2016, 01:28 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Jean, if this book says that ilining warih is equivalent (ie, the same as) beras wutah, they are wrong. Sorry, but they misunderstand. Beras wutah (wos wutah, wusing wutah --- and a number of other spelling variations) is the major random pamor pattern:- you take the material, fold and weld a few times, forge the keris, carve: job done. Result:- random pamor:- beras wutah. However, that random pamor has a number of variations in form, so we can have different wos wutah motifs; this is so in Javanese wos wutah and also in Balinese wos wutah. The text in "Keris Bali Bersejarah" was written by Basuki Teguh Yuwono, a young Javanese gentleman who is a product of the Central Javanese keris school of Solo, and this background shines through consistently in his text. On pages 97 & 98 of "Keris Bali ---" there are photos of various random pamor motifs. These pamors are all named as Wusing Wutah (ie, beras wutah, wos wutah), but then the motif variation is named, and ilining warih is one of these beras wutah motif variations, along with ngulit semangka, pulo tirto. gedhegan, gedhegan bulat, semangka wengkon, ngintip, wengkon. So ilining warih is definitely not equivalent to beras wutah, it is motif variation of beras wutah. We can find exactly the same thing in Jawa. Strictly speaking the pamor motif should be named as "Beras Wutah, ilining warih", but who is so tightly controlled in terminology all the time? Not me, that's for sure, so mostly we just use the name of the motif variation, same as if we are talking about a motor vehicle, we don't always say "Ford Mustang", mostly we just say "Mustang":- everybody knows its a Ford. Re the pamor being difficult to see. Is it possible that these blades with difficult to see pamors are older blades? Mostly very old Bali blades do not have high contrast pamor, it is often, maybe usually, quite dark, very little contrast, especially in keris that would have been the property of common people.

30th August 2016, 12:07 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	As I said Jean:- that is wrong. Ilining warih is one of the variations of wos wutah:- it's still wos wutah, but sub-motif ilining warih --- at least according to Basuki Teguh Yuwono in "Keris Bali ---' . I have never seen a pamor in a Javanese keris that anybody referred to as ilining warih. In fact, even though this name could legitimately be used to describe a pamor in a Javanese keris, I've never heard it used. The word "warih" is Javanese literary usage and in Bali it has a similar position in the hierarchy of usage, it is a Kawi word, which means it is literary usage and it is also OK for court usage. I do not speak Balinese, I pulled all this out of a dictionary. I asked a Balinese lady I know first, but she only speaks low level Balinese. However, "ilining" is legitimate Javanese usage. The name ilining warih is legit Javanese usage, it is not normal Balinese, but it may be in use in Balinese as a combination of Kawi + the word "ilining" which could perhaps be deemed a foreign word because it is Javanese. So let's accept that it is legit usage in both places, even though I have never encountered it in use anywhere. The only illustration I can find of ilining warih is in Harsrinuksmo, and that entry goes on and describes what I know as an adeg pamor. As is not uncommon with Harsrinuksmo, I think it may be another of his, let us say, "journalistic" entries. This is a common criticism of Harsrinuksmo, and it could well be unjust. He did not hold himself forth as a keris expert, but rather as a writer about keris. He sourced his info from various accepted keris authorities. One of the very well known characteristics of information sourced from Javanese informants is that if you ask a question you will be given an answer and the answer you get is very likely to be the answer that the informant thinks will please you. You need to be very close to somebody before you get a "sorry, I don't know", or even a 100% genuine transfer of information, which even then must be questioned and validated. To be able to name any pamor with reasonable accuracy you need to understand how it was made. In the Balinese examples that Basuki Yuwono names as "wusing wutah --ilining warih" the pamor has been made by welding the layers of contrasting pamor material with minimum distortion, and then cutting the kruwingan to expose the separate layers of pamor mlumah. In effect we are looking at "laying down pamor" that has carefully had the distorted layers of material removed to expose principally parallel layers of material. In an adeg pamor we are looking at a pamor miring, where the layers of pamor have been manipulated in the forge so that they stand at 90 degrees to the core of the blade:- a "cross-ways" pamor. Yet Harsrinuksmo tells us that ilining warih is similar to adeg? Come on, the bloke simply didn't know what he was writing about and that means his informant didn't understand what he was talking about. Don't think that just because something is written by an Indonesian, or a Javanese, that they all know what they're talking about --- or that they necessarily want to tell you everything they know. But Basuki Yuwono does know what he's talking about. He is a skilled pande keris in his own right. Some would accord him the title of empu. In summary:- Yuwono is right. Harsrinuksmo is wrong. Whoever believes that ilining warih is not a sub-motif of beras wutah is very misguided. ~~~~~~~~~~~ re the indistinct pics --- understood, thanks

30th August 2016, 09:34 AM	#7
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Thank you Alan for your detailed and thorough reply, especially the difference between pamor Ilining Warih and Adeg. I hope that you will have the opportunity to see the catalog yourself for getting a more complete idea. What disturbs me as I said is that a number of blades identified with pamor Ilining Warih do not show principally parallel layers of materials. And about the pictures, sorry I should have said too dark shade instead of colour. Regards