Javanese keris for comment

BluErf · 12th January 2005, 11:41 PM

There are many ways to make a blade look older, one common way is to leave the blade in acid for long periods of time. Sometimes, the blade is buried for a while. All of these artificial aging process has one common consequence -- the corrosion on the blade is too even.

Wear and tear on a keris blade that has taken place naturally is a 'random' affair, meaning that the rust takes hold on a few spots only. When cleaned off, it leaves a corroded spot while the other spots are not so corroded. Over long periods of time, this 'uneven' corrosion becomes more and more evident. Plus, natural corrosion of the blade by rust is also accompanied by constant rubbing of blade against sheath when it is put in and taken out of the sheath, so the blade surface while corroded, is smoothened out and has a 'not so sharp' surface. Artificially aged kerises, especially those with pamor miring, has a 'sharp' surface. Looking at the blade above, it is easy to see the superb evenness of the corrosion.

As for the blade having no slorok, you can see in spots of the blade where there is a gap between the pamor lines, but there appears to be no metal underneath. This is not the 1st time I've seen such a kind of blade with no slorok. The other example I've seen actually seemed to be of Riau or Peninsula origins as the pamor is of the non-contrasting form, and the dapur is also quite un-Javanese or Madurese. But then again, these kerises are meant to be 'lookers' and its not surprising that the modern day smiths take shortcuts to produce better-looking pieces faster.

At the end of the day, its what we are looking for as a collector that determines whether we should buy a keris or not, but we should buy it with our eyes open.

And as to the question of good kerises, it is recommended to read the "What makes a good keris" thread, but it is also true that 'good' is a relative term. When the market is flooded with poorly-made new pieces, the slightly better average pieces would look much better in comparison. While there are good old examples in museums (sometimes museums display questionable and not so good kerises too) and books for reference, they are usually forgotten because we don't see them every day, and there is a sense that those are kerises of a different level and not for the common collector. And so the 'good' applied to the kerises (including all the thousands of Madura Muda pieces) floating in the present world is of a different standard.

Anyway, enough of my ramblings, but just to show why I have faith in these Madurese smiths -- here's my example of a Madura Muda keris with pamor blarak ngirid, made properly with a slorok, and not artificially aged. Think many of you have seen this before.

BluErf · 12th January 2005, 11:44 PM

Btw, is this keris considered to have a pudak setegal? I know I have seen pudak setegal that sticks out of the profile, but what is the defining feature of a pudak setegal vs a lis-lisan? Thanks.

(Picture taken from previous thread)

capt.smash · 12th January 2005, 11:58 PM

Wow that madura muda is fantastic ,realy beautiful

nechesh · 13th January 2005, 01:20 AM

OK, now that i understand the term pudak setegal (thanks Adni, i found it on your site after asking twice here to no avail and failing to find it in a few books and other web sites

) i will give the subject a shot. I think many diagrams on the parts of the keris don't include this feature because it is fairly rare. I don't see this feature in either Tatyana's keris or the last keris you posted Kai Wee. I believe that sticking out from the profile IS the defining factor here. If it don't, it ain't. Though rarely found on keris, i guess it would be on my ultimate ricikan tricked-out uber-keris.

I agree with Blu that Maduran keris making, with a few other spots, is keeping modern keris making alive. But these keris, for the most part, are not being made to fool collecters into believing they are old. Unscrupulous dealers may do that, but high quality modern keris are being turned out for those who collect such art pieces. Many of these keris are "artificially aged" not to fool anyone, but because this is the style of surface finish these collectors are looking for. So even blade wear is not really a cosequence at all, unless you intend to try to pass the keris off as an old one. As for quality, i am not surprised that some short-cuts are being made. Still, in terms of pamor control i think some (some) of these modern smiths show a higher degree of technical skill than many of the empus of the past. Remember also that these keris are not intended for combat, but as works of art, so blade strenght is not necessarily an issue here.
Sad or not, the art of keris making is an evolving thing. The days of the keris as a true culture icon is wanning. It is now, for the most part, a cultural artifact. It is becoming less and less a part of the society even on the ceremonial level. It is not worn in public anymore and only occasionally in ritual such as weddings. Families sell off their pusaka to make ends meet. The western world creeps in more and more every day. We will not see a return to the old glory days when empus fasted and recited and brought spirit into iron and pamor. A very, very few still know how. I think our best hope for the modern keris is that the artform survives and continues to technically improve and create things of beauty.

12th January 2005, 11:41 PM	#1
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	There are many ways to make a blade look older, one common way is to leave the blade in acid for long periods of time. Sometimes, the blade is buried for a while. All of these artificial aging process has one common consequence -- the corrosion on the blade is too even. Wear and tear on a keris blade that has taken place naturally is a 'random' affair, meaning that the rust takes hold on a few spots only. When cleaned off, it leaves a corroded spot while the other spots are not so corroded. Over long periods of time, this 'uneven' corrosion becomes more and more evident. Plus, natural corrosion of the blade by rust is also accompanied by constant rubbing of blade against sheath when it is put in and taken out of the sheath, so the blade surface while corroded, is smoothened out and has a 'not so sharp' surface. Artificially aged kerises, especially those with pamor miring, has a 'sharp' surface. Looking at the blade above, it is easy to see the superb evenness of the corrosion. As for the blade having no slorok, you can see in spots of the blade where there is a gap between the pamor lines, but there appears to be no metal underneath. This is not the 1st time I've seen such a kind of blade with no slorok. The other example I've seen actually seemed to be of Riau or Peninsula origins as the pamor is of the non-contrasting form, and the dapur is also quite un-Javanese or Madurese. But then again, these kerises are meant to be 'lookers' and its not surprising that the modern day smiths take shortcuts to produce better-looking pieces faster. At the end of the day, its what we are looking for as a collector that determines whether we should buy a keris or not, but we should buy it with our eyes open. And as to the question of good kerises, it is recommended to read the "What makes a good keris" thread, but it is also true that 'good' is a relative term. When the market is flooded with poorly-made new pieces, the slightly better average pieces would look much better in comparison. While there are good old examples in museums (sometimes museums display questionable and not so good kerises too) and books for reference, they are usually forgotten because we don't see them every day, and there is a sense that those are kerises of a different level and not for the common collector. And so the 'good' applied to the kerises (including all the thousands of Madura Muda pieces) floating in the present world is of a different standard. Anyway, enough of my ramblings, but just to show why I have faith in these Madurese smiths -- here's my example of a Madura Muda keris with pamor blarak ngirid, made properly with a slorok, and not artificially aged. Think many of you have seen this before. Attached Images

12th January 2005, 11:44 PM	#2
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Btw, is this keris considered to have a pudak setegal? I know I have seen pudak setegal that sticks out of the profile, but what is the defining feature of a pudak setegal vs a lis-lisan? Thanks. (Picture taken from previous thread) Attached Images

12th January 2005, 11:58 PM	#3
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	Wow that madura muda is fantastic ,realy beautiful

13th January 2005, 01:20 AM	#4
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	OK, now that i understand the term pudak setegal (thanks Adni, i found it on your site after asking twice here to no avail and failing to find it in a few books and other web sites ) i will give the subject a shot. I think many diagrams on the parts of the keris don't include this feature because it is fairly rare. I don't see this feature in either Tatyana's keris or the last keris you posted Kai Wee. I believe that sticking out from the profile IS the defining factor here. If it don't, it ain't. Though rarely found on keris, i guess it would be on my ultimate ricikan tricked-out uber-keris. I agree with Blu that Maduran keris making, with a few other spots, is keeping modern keris making alive. But these keris, for the most part, are not being made to fool collecters into believing they are old. Unscrupulous dealers may do that, but high quality modern keris are being turned out for those who collect such art pieces. Many of these keris are "artificially aged" not to fool anyone, but because this is the style of surface finish these collectors are looking for. So even blade wear is not really a cosequence at all, unless you intend to try to pass the keris off as an old one. As for quality, i am not surprised that some short-cuts are being made. Still, in terms of pamor control i think some (some) of these modern smiths show a higher degree of technical skill than many of the empus of the past. Remember also that these keris are not intended for combat, but as works of art, so blade strenght is not necessarily an issue here. Sad or not, the art of keris making is an evolving thing. The days of the keris as a true culture icon is wanning. It is now, for the most part, a cultural artifact. It is becoming less and less a part of the society even on the ceremonial level. It is not worn in public anymore and only occasionally in ritual such as weddings. Families sell off their pusaka to make ends meet. The western world creeps in more and more every day. We will not see a return to the old glory days when empus fasted and recited and brought spirit into iron and pamor. A very, very few still know how. I think our best hope for the modern keris is that the artform survives and continues to technically improve and create things of beauty.