Classifying shashka--a serious discussion of typology

[Andreas]

Hello,
A couple of questions, please. Is it correct that shashka is an Adyghe word, meaning big knife? If so, is the word to be found also in related languages? Also, what is the earliest known mention of the term with the meaning of a guardless sabre?
Thanks,
Andreas

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Andreas

Hello,
A couple of questions, please. Is it correct that shashka is an Adyghe word, meaning big knife? If so, is the word to be found also in related languages? Also, what is the earliest known mention of the term with the meaning of a guardless sabre?
Thanks,
Andreas

I believe Philip Tom said in 2001 that it was a Circassian word, but I'm no linguist and perhaps the Adaghe aspect might fall into the dialectic mix. I think Ariel is far more the one to address this as he and Kirill Rivkin have spent many years looking into these things on the Caucusus.

Mahratt, what is 'checkers' ? I think there might be translation error.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Andreas

Hello,
A couple of questions, please. Is it correct that shashka is an Adyghe word, meaning big knife? If so, is the word to be found also in related languages? Also, what is the earliest known mention of the term with the meaning of a guardless sabre?
Thanks,
Andreas

I'll be glad to see this information, if show me a page from Adyghe dictionary. Now it is a matter of controversy among people who explore in Russian weapons.

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Mahratt, what is 'checkers' ? I think there might be translation error.

Jim - my laziness and Google Translate))) Of course I meant "shashka"

Originally Posted by Kubur

The Tunisian examples are not even shashka like. They are short swords one edge, more like the khyber knife. To the opposite the shashka are the swords of the steppic horsemen to quote Lebedinski. You know better than me the difference between a sabre and a short sword. And for me the Bukharan pseudo shashka can be connected to the shashka because of their central Asian origin.
Kubur

Kubur, why "pseudo"?)))

It seemed to me that I demonstrated that the Afghan shashkas - are all signs of "shashkas". At the same time they do not copy the Russian shashkas. In contrast to the complete resemblance Caucasian and Russian (Cossack) shashkas (there really was borrowing)

[Andreas]

[QUOTE=mahratt]I'll be glad to see this information, if show me a page from Adyghe dictionary. Now it is a matter of controversy among people who explore in Russian weapons.



Well, it's written in Cyrillic since 1936, but before Arabic was used, see https://archive.org/details/adictionarycirc01loewgoog

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Andreas

Well, it's written in Cyrillic since 1936, but before Arabic was used, see https://archive.org/details/adictionarycirc01loewgoog

I think we all know, that shashka appeared earlier 1936) But when appeared the word "sa-shko" - the big question)

Speaking seriously, the first time the word "sa-shko" referred to in 1860, as the Circassian word.

But an interesting fact. The British spy in the Caucasus - Edmund Spenser, describing the armed indigenous wrote to "sabre," and not "shashka." And this is despite the fact that on the flyleaf of the first volume of his book 1839 edition depicts mountaineer with his shashka on his belt.

Although maybe I was inattentive?

Nevertheless. It is possible that the term "Sa-shko" has the same origin as "kangaroo" I hope you know the story of the origin of the name))))

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by mahratt

Nevertheless. It is possible that the term "Sa-shko" has the same origin as "kangaroo" I hope you know the story of the origin of the name))))

I do, do you mean that the term is not an indigenous one to describe this particular sword, but coined by foreigners?

[ariel]

Andreas,

Why do you think it was coined by foreigners?

You meant mistranscribed?

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by ariel

Andreas,

Why do you think it was coined by foreigners?

You meant mistranscribed?

Ariel, I assumed that Mahratt was referring to the myth that Kangaroo is a term issuing from a misunderstanding, ie that when Cook and Banks asked the locals what is that hopping creature, they answered Kangaroo or “I don’t understand you”. This has since been disproved, Kangaroo is a legit local name for this marsupial. I was actually asking Mahratt if he thought that the term for the sword under discussion derives from a similar misunderstanding, as he seems to be suggesting, at least as a possibility.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Andreas

I do, do you mean that the term is not an indigenous one to describe this particular sword, but coined by foreigners?

Quite possible. I'm not affirm. But in 1860, the term is used Russian author.