Congo or not?

Ian · 29th July 2016, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I've got a feeling that's not bone.

I agree, Rick. Miguel, can you show us a picture of the end of the hilt to see what this material looks like in cross section? That would be very informative.

Ian.

Congoblades · 30th July 2016, 01:09 AM

Nice Lokele knife, Congo. Is there a hole in de back of the handle? Most of them have a weight on the handle.

Tim Simmons · 30th July 2016, 09:39 AM

Looks like ivory to me. Ni e piece.

Miguel · 30th July 2016, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Congoblades

Nice Lokele knife, Congo. Is there a hole in de back of the handle? Most of them have a weight on the handle.

Hello Congoblades, thanks for your reply, much appreciated, there is a hole in the end of the handle that the tang is bent over in. you will be able to see when I post the photo requested by Ian. Have you any thoughts on the handle material, significance of the lizard/snake decoration and possible age? I love these weapons of the Congo thir shapes and decoration fascinate me.
Regards
Miguel

Miguel · 30th July 2016, 07:38 PM

Hello Rick and Tim, thanks for your reply Ive always thought it to be bone, it will be interesting to see what the others make of it when the see a photo of the end.
Regards
Miguel

mariusgmioc · 30th July 2016, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miguel

Hello Rick and Tim, thanks for your reply Ive always thought it to be bone, it will be interesting to see what the others make of it when the see a photo of the end.
Regards
Miguel

I'm pretty sure it's ivory.

Maybe some cleaning/polishing will return it to its former glory. Not that you can't leave it like it is now.

Congoblades · 30th July 2016, 08:07 PM

It is definitely an old one, how old exactly is hard to tell (some experts can

). To be safe I would say first quarter of the 20th century.
If the handle has the same age as the blade it would be ivory for sure.
About the decoration, I don't see a lizard or snake.

Tim Simmons · 31st July 2016, 08:12 PM

Taken out of the symmetry of the blade there could be a snake in the decoration, a common motif on African blades.

Congoblades · 31st July 2016, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Taken out of the symmetry of the blade there could be a snake in the decoration, a common motif on African blades.

Africa is a very large and diverse continent, saying that it is a common motif on blades is a bit strange. If you want to see a snake in it that's fine for me, but why should there be a snake on a knife from the So, Olombe or Lokele blacksmiths who produces such type of knives?

Miguel · 2nd August 2016, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Taken out of the symmetry of the blade there could be a snake in the decoration, a common motif on African blades.

Hi Tim, I'm pleased that you also can make out a snake in the decoration but as I explained to Congoblades I think it is due to it following the blade contour.
Regards
Miguel

Pieje · 2nd August 2016, 08:24 PM

It's indeed similar to Lokele knives but the general shape of the blade and its decoration point towards the BENGE.

Check this old thread for an example of such BENGE sword in the book "Panga na visu".
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16673

First quarter of the 20th century seems ok.
Handle material seems definitely ivory to me.

Miguel · 2nd August 2016, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Congoblades

It is definitely an old one, how old exactly is hard to tell (some experts can

). To be safe I would say first quarter of the 20th century.
If the handle has the same age as the blade it would be ivory for sure.
About the decoration, I don't see a lizard or snake.

Hello Congoblades, I probabely have an over active imagination and can definitely see a stylised snake in the decoration. It just looks like one even though it may not have been the intention of the Smith who produced it. I think it is due to the decoration following the outline of the blade.
Regards
Miguel

Miguel · 30th July 2016, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

I agree, Rick. Miguel, can you show us a picture of the end of the hilt to see what this material looks like in cross section? That would be very informative.

Ian.

Hello Ian, thanks for your reply interesting I thought it was bone. I have not got a photo showing the end but will take one and post it to see if you can make out what the material is, it may not be till Monday.
Regards
Miguel

Miguel · 2nd August 2016, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miguel

Hello Ian, thanks for your reply interesting I thought it was bone. I have not got a photo showing the end but will take one and post it to see if you can make out what the material is, it may not be till Monday.
Regards
Miguel

Hi Ian, sorry for the delay but I could not remember which box I had stored it in and as I have, over the years, accumulated a large amount of weapons it as taken me much longer to find than I intended. Will have to number boxes and catalogue contents

Any way I have taken a few more photos and shown the end of the handle from which I hope you can tell whether or not it is bone or ivory. Incidently can you see a snake or lizard on the blade decoration.
Regards
Miguel

30th July 2016, 08:07 PM	#7
Congoblades Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 171	It is definitely an old one, how old exactly is hard to tell (some experts can ). To be safe I would say first quarter of the 20th century. If the handle has the same age as the blade it would be ivory for sure. About the decoration, I don't see a lizard or snake. Attached Images

31st July 2016, 08:12 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Taken out of the symmetry of the blade there could be a snake in the decoration, a common motif on African blades. Attached Images

30th July 2016, 01:09 AM	#2
Congoblades Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 171	Nice Lokele knife, Congo. Is there a hole in de back of the handle? Most of them have a weight on the handle.

30th July 2016, 09:39 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Looks like ivory to me. Ni e piece.

30th July 2016, 07:38 PM	#5
Miguel Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 584	Hello Rick and Tim, thanks for your reply Ive always thought it to be bone, it will be interesting to see what the others make of it when the see a photo of the end. Regards Miguel

2nd August 2016, 08:24 PM	#11
Pieje Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Belgium Posts: 132	It's indeed similar to Lokele knives but the general shape of the blade and its decoration point towards the BENGE. Check this old thread for an example of such BENGE sword in the book "Panga na visu". http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16673 First quarter of the 20th century seems ok. Handle material seems definitely ivory to me.