Pata sword with European blade

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by fernando

Is it flexible ?

Hello Fernando,

May I know why are you asking?

I also have a similar Patah but with a different blade that is quite flexible (much more flexible than any of the other blades I have).

While I am by no means very knowledgeable on this subject, I agree with you that the decorations on the ricasso don't look European.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Hello Fernando,

May I know why are you asking?

I also have a similar Patah but with a different blade that is quite flexible (much more flexible than any of the other blades I have).

While I am by no means very knowledgeable on this subject, I agree with you that the decorations on the ricasso don't look European.

Just to be more specific Marius.
This pata, as I noted, has a central fuller which is very much like European blades, most notably schiavona, which often were Solingen made. These central fuller blades were sometimes known to be of African production, however most often imported into Sudan in 1870s-80s (Suakin was one Red Sea entrepot). Peres and Clauberg were noted makers that come to mind. If this blade is not so marked it might be a blank from Solingen.

It is not Indian made .....question, why would the langet/bolster be riveted into the fuller? I am under the impression this might compromise the blade if drilled through. Perhaps that is why these central fuller blades might not be chosen by Indian armourer? or ?

Just asking for your valued opinion, and trying to offer helpful suggestions pending more useful responses.

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Just to be more specific Marius.
This pata, as I noted, has a central fuller which is very much like European blades, most notably schiavona, which often were Solingen made. These central fuller blades were sometimes known to be of African production, however most often imported into Sudan in 1870s-80s (Suakin was one Red Sea entrepot). Peres and Clauberg were noted makers that come to mind. If this blade is not so marked it might be a blank from Solingen.

It is not Indian made .....question, why would the langet/bolster be riveted into the fuller? I am under the impression this might compromise the blade if drilled through. Perhaps that is why these central fuller blades might not be chosen by Indian armourer? or ?

Just asking for your valued opinion, and trying to offer helpful suggestions pending more useful responses.

Thank you Jim for your thoughts!

My blade can definitely be of European origin as European bladesmiths definitely had the knowledge to produce blades with such properties.

But then, if the blade was made in Europe, for what type of sword was it made because it would be too thin and elastic for any type of European sword I know?! It would only be suitable for an Indian Pata, that employs a very particular fighting style where a very elastic blade is required.


PS: Here is a link to an older thread about a Pata with a blade very similar to mine, and apparently equally elastic:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=92078

[fernando]

We can see that the decoration of Kubur's blade goes well into the bolsters. Could it be that the blade was dismounted to have the decoration made or was already decorated before mounting ?
The pronounced central fuller was alredy there from the beginning ... no doubt. Could it be that the side grooves were only made together with the ricasso decoration ?
Is it my impression or the Indian blades in patas are the ones that are flexible and not the European ones; starting by considering that European blades were made for 'normal' swords and not necessarily a product expressly developed for patas.
We hear in the grape vines that blades in patas are largely of European origin; couldn't this be a matter of fashion or acquired culture rather than a matter of necessity ... or quality ?

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by fernando

Is it my impression or the Indian blades in patas are the ones that are flexible and not the European ones; starting by considering that European blades were made for 'normal' swords and not necessarily a product expressly developed for patas.
We hear in the grape vines that blades in patas are largely of European origin; couldn't this be a matter of fashion or acquired culture rather than a matter of necessity ... or quality ?

Exactly my point!

In the photo below, you can see how thin the blade is, which is very unlike any European blade I know.

The same goes for the Pata in the link I provided above. Thin, very elastic blade, most likely unsuitable for any other sword but specifically suited for the fighting style with the Pata, where ample circular blows are delivered, and where you don't want the blade to be stopped abruptly even when hitting a shield, as such an abrupt stop may throw you off-guard and even break your arm.

[fernando]

Posts are being pouring in this same subject in both Ethno and European fora, which somehow disperses discussion efforts.
So if you don't mind, Kubur, we will merge both threads into the Ethno section as, despite the origin of your pata blade is in doubt, the subject is Indian swords.