Afghan Pulowar blade type?

Jim McDougall · 25th July 2016, 03:34 AM

Ariel,
I was not aware of that, and thank you for acknowledging your part in this situation. I would agree that we indeed should be cautious in our involvement assistance with these kinds of matters, but I would not consider Mahratt inexperienced academically or otherwise. He compiled some impressive data and research to include in the article. It was more a matter of language and syntax in the construction of the article, and it seems these kinds of misalignments are often the crux of misunderstandings.
Ironically, if it were simply a case of academic experience I would be immediately disqualified, as I have entirely zero academic experience past my high school diploma. That said, the volume of knowledge and general experience I have achieved has been through the patience and generosity of so many others in these fields who stood as mentors and friends in working with me through many years.

I think it is good that we can clarify some of these aspects of these interesting edged weapons which are in the spectrum of Afghan arms.
I agree, let us continue.......and further, I have no idea of the correct spelling of paluoar(?)

but ?

Ibrahiim, indeed astutely observed on the gooseneck style of the guard, which is tempting in qualifying certain Afghan weapons. This feature, is well known on paluoars, these 'military hilts' and other weapons of northern India. This recurved guard is well known on various Indian tulwar forms, but here I must note it is equally present on many into the Deccan and southern regions. These influences are much too reciprocally diffused throughout Central Asia to depend on them for regional classification, however they can be considered as compelling evidence where certain consistancies are found.

It is evident that this Central Asian feature with Ottoman influences well established is something that might be considered to be prevalent through Mughal channels.

estcrh · 25th July 2016, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Ironically, if it were simply a case of academic experience I would be immediately disqualified, as I have entirely zero academic experience past my high school diploma.

Jim, I never would have guessed if you did not say it yourself!!

Jim McDougall · 25th July 2016, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Jim, I never would have guessed if you did not say it yourself!!

Thank you so much Eric, that is a most kind thing to say !

ariel · 25th July 2016, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Ariel,

Ironically, if it were simply a case of academic experience I would be immediately disqualified, as I have entirely zero academic experience past my high school diploma. That said, the volume of knowledge and general experience I have achieved has been through the patience and generosity of so many others in these fields who stood as mentors and friends in working with me through many years.

There are as many ways to skin a cat just as to become a true academic researcher:-)

Education in a particular discipline is important and necessary only in certain cases requiring certification . But Georg Mendel discovered laws of heredity without ever getting any formal biological education. And how many weapon historians and researchers had formal degree in that discipline? Stone was just a metallurgist dealing with non-ferrous alloys:-) Buttin? As a matter of fact, virtually all important contributions into that field were done by the individuals without any specific formal education in weaponry as such.

What you had, Jim, was your ability and willingness to learn, listen to opinions of experienced people, readiness to discard your own biases, honesty in admitting your errors, respect for books and people and honing your skills in asking the right questions and formulating supportable answers.

That's all what was needed to become "Google" Mc Dougall :-)

I would venture to say that any reasonably intelligent person can become a true "academic" researcher in our field that blissfully does not have formal education and curriculum requirements. We are all autodidacts.

On the other hand, absence of any condition stated above would be a fatal flaw, permanently disqualifying a person from becoming a true researcher.

kronckew · 25th July 2016, 01:41 PM

ignorance can be cured, stupid is forever.

the prescription for ignorance is learning; education by teachers with open minds and the ability to accept ideas from others, testing them, and by your own research, self-education and experience. learning is also making mistakes and eventually not making the same ones. you are not ignorant if you have learned as much as you can and keep trying to exceed your limitations, no matter what your IQ. formal education can actually be a hindrance.

the prescription for stupidity is euthanasia; chlorinating the gene pool for the sake of the rest of us and the future. sadly too many of us, mostly politicians, seem incapable of even accepting that much change. they seem to revel in and enjoy their status quo. the occasional one gets a bit of enlightenment and resigns before the stuff hits the fan.

p.s. - there is a cure for all this off topic maudlin pedantry: it's called 'Beer', sadly not available to all. occasionally a good quinta port works well too, as fernando may be able to confirm.

Jim McDougall · 25th July 2016, 05:43 PM

Ariel, your most kind words are so welcomed, and only surpassed by the eloquence in the way you have expressed them. I hope others will be inspired to follow them as well, as they are so true.
I sincerely thank you.

What is most important is that all of us here have different styles, levels of learning, fields of study and pretty much an infinite spectrum of personalities. All we need is to put them all together and continue to learn together, and the possibilities to advance all our knowledge is endless.

Kronckew, very well said........lets all have a beer!!!
and get back to palouars (or whatever they are) etc. !!!!

You guys are all the best!

ariel · 26th July 2016, 01:58 AM

Well, boys, if you have a chance to get a bottle of "Two-hearted ale" from Bell's Brewery in Kalamazoo, you will get addicted to the best IPA you will ever taste....

Sorry, just had to spread the good word. All non-Michiganders need to get educated about the best things in life.

Back to the sharpies!

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 26th July 2016, 06:15 PM

All in the name of education...

kronckew · 26th July 2016, 06:40 PM

education, of course. i'm still occasionally researching for a paper on comparative beer tasteology rankings. there are some local craft micro-breweries here. i prefer the stouts and porters now, more flavour.

one of the best beers i recall was a locally brewed heiniken i had at amman airport waiting to change planes. 1st real beer after my first year in saudi. also stopped in munich, had some admittedly better beers there, but...that 1st one was special.

what has this to do with sharp pointies? nothing...everything.

win one glorious golden 'attaboy' if you can guess who said those last two words, where and when.

25th July 2016, 01:41 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	ignorance can be cured, stupid is forever. the prescription for ignorance is learning; education by teachers with open minds and the ability to accept ideas from others, testing them, and by your own research, self-education and experience. learning is also making mistakes and eventually not making the same ones. you are not ignorant if you have learned as much as you can and keep trying to exceed your limitations, no matter what your IQ. formal education can actually be a hindrance. the prescription for stupidity is euthanasia; chlorinating the gene pool for the sake of the rest of us and the future. sadly too many of us, mostly politicians, seem incapable of even accepting that much change. they seem to revel in and enjoy their status quo. the occasional one gets a bit of enlightenment and resigns before the stuff hits the fan. p.s. - there is a cure for all this off topic maudlin pedantry: it's called 'Beer', sadly not available to all. occasionally a good quinta port works well too, as fernando may be able to confirm. Last edited by kronckew; 25th July 2016 at 02:00 PM.

26th July 2016, 06:15 PM	#8
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	All in the name of education... Attached Images

26th July 2016, 06:40 PM	#9
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	education, of course. i'm still occasionally researching for a paper on comparative beer tasteology rankings. there are some local craft micro-breweries here. i prefer the stouts and porters now, more flavour. one of the best beers i recall was a locally brewed heiniken i had at amman airport waiting to change planes. 1st real beer after my first year in saudi. also stopped in munich, had some admittedly better beers there, but...that 1st one was special. what has this to do with sharp pointies? nothing...everything. win one glorious golden 'attaboy' if you can guess who said those last two words, where and when. Last edited by kronckew; 26th July 2016 at 06:57 PM.

25th July 2016, 03:34 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Ariel, I was not aware of that, and thank you for acknowledging your part in this situation. I would agree that we indeed should be cautious in our involvement assistance with these kinds of matters, but I would not consider Mahratt inexperienced academically or otherwise. He compiled some impressive data and research to include in the article. It was more a matter of language and syntax in the construction of the article, and it seems these kinds of misalignments are often the crux of misunderstandings. Ironically, if it were simply a case of academic experience I would be immediately disqualified, as I have entirely zero academic experience past my high school diploma. That said, the volume of knowledge and general experience I have achieved has been through the patience and generosity of so many others in these fields who stood as mentors and friends in working with me through many years. I think it is good that we can clarify some of these aspects of these interesting edged weapons which are in the spectrum of Afghan arms. I agree, let us continue.......and further, I have no idea of the correct spelling of paluoar(?) but ? Ibrahiim, indeed astutely observed on the gooseneck style of the guard, which is tempting in qualifying certain Afghan weapons. This feature, is well known on paluoars, these 'military hilts' and other weapons of northern India. This recurved guard is well known on various Indian tulwar forms, but here I must note it is equally present on many into the Deccan and southern regions. These influences are much too reciprocally diffused throughout Central Asia to depend on them for regional classification, however they can be considered as compelling evidence where certain consistancies are found. It is evident that this Central Asian feature with Ottoman influences well established is something that might be considered to be prevalent through Mughal channels.

25th July 2016, 05:43 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Ariel, your most kind words are so welcomed, and only surpassed by the eloquence in the way you have expressed them. I hope others will be inspired to follow them as well, as they are so true. I sincerely thank you. What is most important is that all of us here have different styles, levels of learning, fields of study and pretty much an infinite spectrum of personalities. All we need is to put them all together and continue to learn together, and the possibilities to advance all our knowledge is endless. Kronckew, very well said........lets all have a beer!!! and get back to palouars (or whatever they are) etc. !!!! You guys are all the best!

26th July 2016, 01:58 AM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Well, boys, if you have a chance to get a bottle of "Two-hearted ale" from Bell's Brewery in Kalamazoo, you will get addicted to the best IPA you will ever taste.... Sorry, just had to spread the good word. All non-Michiganders need to get educated about the best things in life. Back to the sharpies!