Early Ottoman/Eastern European Sabre for Comment

TVV · 7th July 2016, 11:04 PM

Jim, thank you for your input. As usual, your vast knowledge allows you to see similarities with swords from Poland to Yemen to even India. I agree that there seem to be a lot of features, common with Eastern and Central European swords, starting with the blade and even in the hilt. Not at all surprising considering the history of warfare between the Ottomans, Habsburgs, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and their various allies, as well as where this sword was found and currently resides.

Estrch, thank you for posting this example, which while not a perfect fit, seems to be very similar, almost like a very luxurious version of the subject sword. If you look past the gold and the precious stones, the hilt and the scabbard appear to be of very similar form, down to the rings where the baldric is attached. Apart from the Ottoman attribution, is there any additional information about this sword?

Teodor

estcrh · 7th July 2016, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

Estrch, thank you for posting this example, which while not a perfect fit, seems to be very similar, almost like a very luxurious version of the subject sword. If you look past the gold and the precious stones, the hilt and the scabbard appear to be of very similar form, down to the rings where the baldric is attached. Apart from the Ottoman attribution, is there any additional information about this sword?

Teodor

Teodor, look up, I added the info to my post.

TVV · 8th July 2016, 12:50 AM

Thank you!

T. Koch · 17th July 2016, 12:24 PM

Nice sword, love the hilt! Could you take a pic and show the scales in cross-section? It looks as if it has the crystalline 2. dentine of walrus visible at the end of the pommes, but the way the scales arae patinated laterally, it also looks a lot like a piece of elephant carved from the bark/core-area. Whichever it is, the patination is very beautiful!

Cheers, Thor

ariel · 18th July 2016, 02:18 AM

I am with Oliver on this one.
The overall gestalt is Ottoman. However, the Ottomans spread their influence far and wide, from Yemen to Hungary and from North Africa to Russia/ Ukraine , with some forays into India.
Thus, precise geographic attribution may not be 100% possible, although some possibilities are more likely than others. My best guess ( exactly that: just a guess!) would be Central Europe. For me the blade, with uninterrupted "jaws" markings and widening toward the tip, represents a somewhat mysterious component: It is rather similar to S. Aravian nimcha.

How to put it together beats me, but old Oriental weapons in general often have so many bizarre features and so many admixtures during their life span , that nothing would surprise me.

TVV · 18th July 2016, 05:48 PM

Thor,

Here is a picture of the hilt, hope this is what you were looking for. Interestingly, there is a layer of black leather between the scales and the tang.

Teodor

Jim McDougall · 19th July 2016, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

Thor,

Here is a picture of the hilt, hope this is what you were looking for. Interestingly, there is a layer of black leather between the scales and the tang.

Teodor

Another thing that says Arabia to me.

18th July 2016, 05:48 PM	#6
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Thor, Here is a picture of the hilt, hope this is what you were looking for. Interestingly, there is a layer of black leather between the scales and the tang. Teodor Attached Images

7th July 2016, 11:04 PM	#1
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Jim, thank you for your input. As usual, your vast knowledge allows you to see similarities with swords from Poland to Yemen to even India. I agree that there seem to be a lot of features, common with Eastern and Central European swords, starting with the blade and even in the hilt. Not at all surprising considering the history of warfare between the Ottomans, Habsburgs, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and their various allies, as well as where this sword was found and currently resides. Estrch, thank you for posting this example, which while not a perfect fit, seems to be very similar, almost like a very luxurious version of the subject sword. If you look past the gold and the precious stones, the hilt and the scabbard appear to be of very similar form, down to the rings where the baldric is attached. Apart from the Ottoman attribution, is there any additional information about this sword? Teodor

8th July 2016, 12:50 AM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Thank you!

17th July 2016, 12:24 PM	#4
T. Koch Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Mother North Posts: 189	Nice sword, love the hilt! Could you take a pic and show the scales in cross-section? It looks as if it has the crystalline 2. dentine of walrus visible at the end of the pommes, but the way the scales arae patinated laterally, it also looks a lot like a piece of elephant carved from the bark/core-area. Whichever it is, the patination is very beautiful! Cheers, Thor

18th July 2016, 02:18 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I am with Oliver on this one. The overall gestalt is Ottoman. However, the Ottomans spread their influence far and wide, from Yemen to Hungary and from North Africa to Russia/ Ukraine , with some forays into India. Thus, precise geographic attribution may not be 100% possible, although some possibilities are more likely than others. My best guess ( exactly that: just a guess!) would be Central Europe. For me the blade, with uninterrupted "jaws" markings and widening toward the tip, represents a somewhat mysterious component: It is rather similar to S. Aravian nimcha. How to put it together beats me, but old Oriental weapons in general often have so many bizarre features and so many admixtures during their life span , that nothing would surprise me.