Shotel draw

roanoa · 22nd June 2016, 03:46 PM

It seems that there is still some confusion: shotel is the sickle style sword sharpened on both edges vs. gurade (gorade) which is the sabre sharpened on one edge only. Having said that, this is a detail of a painting depicting the Battle of Dogali. It shows how the shotel was used. This painting (very large) shows a large variety of Abyssinian weapons with almost photographic accuracy.

roanoa · 22nd June 2016, 04:51 PM

You can Google "Battle of Dogali painting" to get the full picture. It's really amazing.

Jerseyman · 22nd June 2016, 05:48 PM

Ah - a distinction I was unaware of - thanks. It would appear I have a couple of shotel

A great picture as you say. I also note that the artist moved to the battle site and apparently stayed for nearly five years - so I have to suppose that in that time he would have learned how the locals really used their weapons. Therefore unlikely to be any artistic licence at play.

If this is an accurate representation of the traditional weapon grip, then I am as flummoxed as you regarding the draw.

The only way I can see to do it would be to place your right hand on the grip, fingers on top pointing towards your body, thumb underneath - as if about to place your hand on your hip - then pull the hilt around to your right (a quarter rotation). Drop your left hand down past your left hip to grip the base of the scabbard to steady it, then draw out and up to your right. By rotating your upper torso to your right you should also release your shoulder enough to be able to draw a 30 inch blade. As the point clears the scabbard the torsion in your wrist/shoulder would flick it forwards clearing your body and your wrist would rotate the blade clockwise into guard or the first attack.

I've used similar draws on a variety of blades worn on the back of the belt. It may seem clumsy in writing, but with a little practice it becomes a fluid and fast draw - particularly if the equipment allows it. If the blade slips easily from the scabbard for example.

Of course I am extrapolating from the information I have, rather than speaking from a position of historical knowledge. But in my experience, when you have certain fixed nodes of information, there are only a limited number of ways the variables can go together.

I take your point Thinreadline about the quick draw and of course you're right. But I'd also suggest that pragmatically, a warrior who carries weapons regularly is inevitably going to need to draw them in rapid response to a threat sometime, and it seems more likely to me that those who fight often are unlikely to put themselves in a position where it's awkward to get to their weapons. Just a thought.

Kronckew - that's great information and images - thanks. Amazing to see the damage that falx did!

I really hope someone has an answer to the traditional draw - it's always fascinating to see how different cultures resolve the same issue.

kronckew · 22nd June 2016, 05:51 PM

... ancilliary photos: roman helmets, earlier and with cross bar on the crown during/after dacian war. the 'crossed' one was actually found in dacia, modern day romania.

kronckew · 22nd June 2016, 05:58 PM

video on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhhe6kxlRAA

nKante · 28th June 2016, 11:37 PM

Thanks for the replies.
The gentleman in the video is DaMon Stith out of Austin, Texas. He is doing some really cool things and recently started a Historical African Martial Arts page on Facebook. It was a picture he posted of a warrior posing with his sword half drawn that made me ask the question. From the picture it looks like the sword will be drawn with inner blade towards him. I was thinking maybe it was drawn like this for the picture.
Jerseyman, I was thinking something along the same lines. I was playing around with a sickle and came up with a 'cowboy' style draw. Imagine the classic western 'getting ready to draw stance'. With the handle pointing forward, the back of the thumb is placed on the bottom of the handle. As the hand is raised.the thumb rotates the sword around until the handle is basically facing the rear. The thumb ends up on top of the handle and now the hand can close on the handle. The arm is extended straight back pulling the sword from the sheath. With an upward flick of the wrist the curve of the sword helps it come out of the scabbard.

22nd June 2016, 03:46 PM	#1
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 241	It seems that there is still some confusion: shotel is the sickle style sword sharpened on both edges vs. gurade (gorade) which is the sabre sharpened on one edge only. Having said that, this is a detail of a painting depicting the Battle of Dogali. It shows how the shotel was used. This painting (very large) shows a large variety of Abyssinian weapons with almost photographic accuracy. Attached Images

22nd June 2016, 05:51 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,227	... ancilliary photos: roman helmets, earlier and with cross bar on the crown during/after dacian war. the 'crossed' one was actually found in dacia, modern day romania. Attached Images

28th June 2016, 11:37 PM	#6
nKante Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Philly Posts: 72	Thanks for the replies. The gentleman in the video is DaMon Stith out of Austin, Texas. He is doing some really cool things and recently started a Historical African Martial Arts page on Facebook. It was a picture he posted of a warrior posing with his sword half drawn that made me ask the question. From the picture it looks like the sword will be drawn with inner blade towards him. I was thinking maybe it was drawn like this for the picture. Jerseyman, I was thinking something along the same lines. I was playing around with a sickle and came up with a 'cowboy' style draw. Imagine the classic western 'getting ready to draw stance'. With the handle pointing forward, the back of the thumb is placed on the bottom of the handle. As the hand is raised.the thumb rotates the sword around until the handle is basically facing the rear. The thumb ends up on top of the handle and now the hand can close on the handle. The arm is extended straight back pulling the sword from the sheath. With an upward flick of the wrist the curve of the sword helps it come out of the scabbard. Attached Images

22nd June 2016, 04:51 PM	#2
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 241	You can Google "Battle of Dogali painting" to get the full picture. It's really amazing.

22nd June 2016, 05:48 PM	#3
Jerseyman Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 97	Ah - a distinction I was unaware of - thanks. It would appear I have a couple of shotel A great picture as you say. I also note that the artist moved to the battle site and apparently stayed for nearly five years - so I have to suppose that in that time he would have learned how the locals really used their weapons. Therefore unlikely to be any artistic licence at play. If this is an accurate representation of the traditional weapon grip, then I am as flummoxed as you regarding the draw. The only way I can see to do it would be to place your right hand on the grip, fingers on top pointing towards your body, thumb underneath - as if about to place your hand on your hip - then pull the hilt around to your right (a quarter rotation). Drop your left hand down past your left hip to grip the base of the scabbard to steady it, then draw out and up to your right. By rotating your upper torso to your right you should also release your shoulder enough to be able to draw a 30 inch blade. As the point clears the scabbard the torsion in your wrist/shoulder would flick it forwards clearing your body and your wrist would rotate the blade clockwise into guard or the first attack. I've used similar draws on a variety of blades worn on the back of the belt. It may seem clumsy in writing, but with a little practice it becomes a fluid and fast draw - particularly if the equipment allows it. If the blade slips easily from the scabbard for example. Of course I am extrapolating from the information I have, rather than speaking from a position of historical knowledge. But in my experience, when you have certain fixed nodes of information, there are only a limited number of ways the variables can go together. I take your point Thinreadline about the quick draw and of course you're right. But I'd also suggest that pragmatically, a warrior who carries weapons regularly is inevitably going to need to draw them in rapid response to a threat sometime, and it seems more likely to me that those who fight often are unlikely to put themselves in a position where it's awkward to get to their weapons. Just a thought. Kronckew - that's great information and images - thanks. Amazing to see the damage that falx did! I really hope someone has an answer to the traditional draw - it's always fascinating to see how different cultures resolve the same issue.

22nd June 2016, 05:58 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,227	video on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhhe6kxlRAA