Materials used in medieval pattern welded swords

Hotspur · 29th May 2016, 12:17 AM

There is also the root url of this site that shares numerous articles.
http://www.vikingsword.com/

Cheers

GGC

Seerp Visser · 29th May 2016, 09:43 PM

Thank you all for your information. It gives me some work to read all the relevant parts of the suggested documentation.

One of the specific questions i have is the use of Phosphorus containing iron.

Since the difference in carbon content between two steels only shows a minimum of contrast, i looked for other tricks.
Nickel was not present those days (perhaps some in China as Nickel/Copper alloy), but i heard the rumor that Phosphorus rich iron gives a clear contrast with iron without Phosphorus.

When the Phosphorus story is true, the blacksmiths in the old days have applied iron traded from other areas to make a design in their swords....
This was not done to obtain more strength (Phosphorus makes the steel brittle) but for reasons of beauty.

So when and where did they apply that trick? and what is Phosphorus rich iron, or how much percent (will be tenths of a percent) is Phosphorus rich?

Lee · 30th May 2016, 01:29 PM

This is covered to some degree in:
Tylecote, R.F. and Gilmour, B.J.J., B.A.R.British Series 155: The Metallography of Early Ferrous Edge Tools and Edged Weapons (Oxford: B.A.R., 1986).

A relevant selection from page 251 of that work is shown below.

Page 252 is table (ex. Salin) on composition of Merovingian pattern-welded sword blades and gives Phosphorous contents between 0.14 and 0.35% but without localization.

Sajen · 1st June 2016, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seerp Visser

Since the difference in carbon content between two steels only shows a minimum of contrast, i looked for other tricks.
Nickel was not present those days (perhaps some in China as Nickel/Copper alloy), but i heard the rumor that Phosphorus rich iron gives a clear contrast with iron without Phosphorus.

I've heard that nickel was used in Indonesia when the first bicycles come to Indonesia by the dutch i.e., the wheels/rims where used to get a rich contrast by keris pamor. Could be very well correct but an unproved story.

Regards,
Detlef

Jens Nordlunde · 1st June 2016, 09:38 PM

Have a look at this thread http://videnskab.dk/kultur-samfund/t...8e96-239811693
I find it quite interesting, that they knew about meteoric irin at the time, and knew how to work it.

30th May 2016, 01:29 PM	#3
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 949	This is covered to some degree in: Tylecote, R.F. and Gilmour, B.J.J., B.A.R.British Series 155: The Metallography of Early Ferrous Edge Tools and Edged Weapons (Oxford: B.A.R., 1986). A relevant selection from page 251 of that work is shown below. Page 252 is table (ex. Salin) on composition of Merovingian pattern-welded sword blades and gives Phosphorous contents between 0.14 and 0.35% but without localization. Attached Images

29th May 2016, 12:17 AM	#1
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 528	There is also the root url of this site that shares numerous articles. http://www.vikingsword.com/ Cheers GGC

29th May 2016, 09:43 PM	#2
Seerp Visser Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Belgium Posts: 37	Thank you all for your information. It gives me some work to read all the relevant parts of the suggested documentation. One of the specific questions i have is the use of Phosphorus containing iron. Since the difference in carbon content between two steels only shows a minimum of contrast, i looked for other tricks. Nickel was not present those days (perhaps some in China as Nickel/Copper alloy), but i heard the rumor that Phosphorus rich iron gives a clear contrast with iron without Phosphorus. When the Phosphorus story is true, the blacksmiths in the old days have applied iron traded from other areas to make a design in their swords.... This was not done to obtain more strength (Phosphorus makes the steel brittle) but for reasons of beauty. So when and where did they apply that trick? and what is Phosphorus rich iron, or how much percent (will be tenths of a percent) is Phosphorus rich?

1st June 2016, 09:38 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Have a look at this thread http://videnskab.dk/kultur-samfund/t...8e96-239811693 I find it quite interesting, that they knew about meteoric irin at the time, and knew how to work it.